BAE Hawk - Skyways Models

[Peter Garsden]

I managed to quite easily draw the sides together onto F1 - the slots formed by saw cuts worked really well. I had to experiment with F1 sizing to suit the profile. I should have left curves top and bottom but didn't so will overlap top and bottom sheeting.

As I had lots of 1/16" ply left over I decided to laminate two pieces with the grain in opposite direction. I thought it would be stronger than one piece of 1/8". Seems to have worked.

Note the slot in F1 which will take a tab from the ply profile for the nose block. Also cut this out and realised that this also should have been taller top to bottom. That is the beauty of going off a plan. Someone else has already worked out all these things.

I have learned that although the SLEC jig is brilliant, the plastic clamps tend to spey out at the top and need extra clamping. I made this mistake with the Jet Provost and had to reglue and clamp the nose.

 

Edited By Peter Garsden on 05/09/2014 09:12:50

[Peter Garsden]

[Peter Garsden]

Photos of clamps are so interesting. This one shows the two layers of 1/8 inch sheet clamped to the sides to thicken the fuselage and bring it up to the sides of the foam sections. The plan show 1/4 inch which stops at F2 beyond which is the plastic cowl. 1/4 would never have bent to shape, hence the amendment.

Also the 1/2 inch is secured to the outsides. As the kit includes t he plastic mouldings pack, I now realise that a lot of the wooden parts aren't needed, so I will have quite a lot left over.

I have abandoned cryano for large sheets as it is too expensive and OK for small bits not sheeting, so am using aliphatic resin. Must be careful to not expose any for sanding as it doesn't sand.

[Peter Garsden]

Made some progress yesterday but nothing worth photographing really. Made the bottom hatch which you can see to the right of the photo. Also blocked up the top of the fuselage ready for the canopy.

Just before bed I made up some epoxy and glassed the front section of the nose, with normal cloth, and carbon tape for extra strength. I figured that the original had a big lump of engine whereas I am just putting a battery there, so why not have some reinforcement instead.

I was dabbing the glass rather than trying to paint it - much easier to position.

[Peter Garsden]

[Peter Garsden]

I also decided to extend the nose and make it sharper than the plan which was drawn for a conventional spinner and therefore stubby. I used the french curves I bought recently to great effect Like all things I invest in, I don't know how I managed without them.

[Peter Garsden]

BIG PROBLEM - HELP NEEDED - please chaps.

When I offered up the canopy which came with the kit it is too short by about 2 inches, which means that the front part of the sloping canopy doesn't extend to the balsa I have prepared.

It would be easy to go back to the supplier and ask for a replacement, except this kit isn't made any more. I am going to ring Mike's Models on Monday and ask if they still have any canopies which fit.

If not my options are, as I see it:-

1. Block up the front with balsa to meet the perspex.
2. Make a piece of perspex to fit and join it with a piece of .5mm ply to make it look like part of the canopy - bit of a mess - this is where I need help really.
3. If I cut up a lemonade bottle, presumably I have to make a plug out of balsa or hardwood, and then heat it up - with a hair dryer? and try and stretch it to shape - bit of a phaff.

I went on t'internet last night but could not see any canopies for sale that would do. Still a problem shared is a problem halved?

[Mark Kettle 1]

Looking good Peter, sorry cant help with canopy. What about Steve at Vortex?

[KingKade]

The front element of the canopy, seems straightforward, you could template it in card then cut out perspex. Its a simple and small, also overlap in the direction of airflow, otherwise its the balsa Block option.....

[Phil Cooke]

Hiya Pete,

Good to bump into you today - hope you got some good air on Bosley.

2 options here I think, but first - are you happy the profile of the canopy looks ok in side view (for the bit it reaches) - ie - is it a Hawk canopy?? Does it have any simulated canopy hoops or alike in the vacform??

If you are happy with the profile, then I think as KingK has stated, the front section really is quite simple and you could make that (as the permanent windscreen part of the canopy) and glue it to a half round canopy frame as per the full size. Looking at the photo the rest of the canopy should then be long enough to cover from the front canopy hoop to the very rear of the cockpit. But this is only an option if you are happy with the canopy shape.

If its just plain wrong, then as Mark has stated, Steve Davis at Vortex should be able to help immediately he has done more than one sized Hawk in the past, and should have something with a mould 'on the shelf' ready to go. Failing that, as discussed today, look at Tucano canopies too - they are good for the shape on a Hawk turned round 180 degrees, assuming of course there are no moulded canopy hoops which would then go the wrong way!!

Give Steve a ring, PM me if you struggle with his number but I think it can be found on the Vortex website, or email your canopy requirements to him at [email protected]

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I think it's very possible that the canopy was designed as 2 part in the first place with a sheet acetate front section. I've got one of these kits in the loft waiting for a rainy day and I think when I was checking the canopy found in the previous owner's loft (is there a pattern here?) which seemed likely to be the right one that was the conclusion I came to...

As per KingKade and Phil's observations, it does look like the screen is a single curvature section.

Edited By Martin Harris on 07/09/2014 20:01:06

[Phil Cooke]

If that IS the case, then I would suggest Pete, in your photo above, that you have the canopy back to front - as the most bulbous part of the canopy should be over the front pilot seat, not the rear. If you turn it round 108 degrees, and assume that you are making the front windshield from either sheet acetate or part of a coke bottle, does the canopy look about right??

[Phil Cooke]

There's another clue to this too Peter - I've just looked at your photo full res - and you can see a part # 23 - which appears to be the front canopy hoop, onto which you glue the main canopy and the front windshield as Martin has suggested... can you find said part #23 - is it a plywood strip that is to be formed into a hoop?

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I think you've hit the nail on the head Phil - there's something very familiar with the idea that the canopy went the opposite way to the initial assumption when I was working out that I had the right one coming back through the haze of time...

[Peter Garsden]

Oh I just love these blogs - you are all so generous and helpful chaps. Thank you.

1. Rang Mason's Models who still do Skyways kits - he is going to look in the loft to see if he still has one left - no email yet.
2. Emailed Steve at Vortex who says the canopy at 418mm is too long for their machine! Maybe the one in the kit is a Vortex one which is as long as they could produce??
3. I am fairly sure I have got the canopy the right way round as there is a diagonal join line which matches the rear join reasonably well. The shape is not exactly the same, and there are no hoop marks, so who knows? Will have another look when I get home. Thinking about it, I am not sure it is wide enough.
4. If I can't get another canopy, the lemonade bottle idea, and the card template are brilliant ideas, wonderful thanks. Don't want to go for the balsa block idea really as it will look naff. There are plastic mouldings in the kit for the instrument panels and seat back.
5. Steve has recommended another supplier - Sarik-Vacforms in Bristol whom I have emailed. We'll just have to see.
6. I have a lemonade bottle all ready but it is still sticky with lemonade inside it - I am going to wash it first - see I think of everything.
7. My pilots have arrived and look OK. If they are anything like the JP Pilots they are absolutely useless. Seem to spend the whole time pumping steam into the cockpit and do nothing to control the plane at all. I have do everything for them at the transmitter end!

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Right - I've been up to the loft to check this out! ('er indoors has been nagging me to put something up there anyway)

My canopy is identical, down to the moulded line at the back - but I don't think it's there as a cut line as it looks lke it should sit slightly further back, which there's plenty of material to accommodate. The build instructions specifically mention fitting the canopy AND the screen suggesting they are separate items so I'm 99.99% certain that we both have the canopy intended for the model.

Edited By Martin Harris on 08/09/2014 19:36:43

[Peter Garsden]

Have now done some investigating and you are both absolutely right. Thank you so much for your help.

1. I had the canopy the wrong way round.
2. It doesn't say anywhere on the plan or the instructions that the canopy is in 2 pieces - the bit I showed before goes up to the canopy liner which is part 23 on the plan, and which I made last night, namely 4 layers of .5mm ply bent round a former and superglued.
3. Beyond the canopy former you bend and glue the canopy screen. I have discovered in the bottom of the box a piece of perspex for the very purpose.
4. I will make a cardboard template once I have planed the nose to shape, and use that.

All sorted chaps. Thanks a lot.

[Peter Garsden]

Question. What sort of glue for plastic to foam or veneer? Figured epoxy or cryano. Anyway I have been trying to fashion the rear tail cone which is plastic moulding. I had to saw it down. It was like trying to put jelly in a vice. Nightmare. Managed it in the end, then used my new files from the tungsten carbide suppliers whose name escapes me, and roughed up the surface. See pictures

[Peter Garsden]

[Peter Garsden]

This photo shows my handy dremmel fret saw/band saw which has been invaluable with the amount of ply parts there are in this kit. It is very fine, and cut this hole for the jet outlet perfectly. There are balsa alternatives for all the plastic moulding parts which you can make instead. I am going to use the jet inlet supplied in .5mm ply as one can see in the next photo.

Edited By Peter Garsden on 09/09/2014 19:26:32

Edited By Peter Garsden on 09/09/2014 19:29:05

[Peter Garsden]

Edited By Peter Garsden on 09/09/2014 19:40:47

[Peter Garsden]

In the photo above you can see the tabs I have glued to the tail cone to line up the item correctly with the fuselage. I figure I will use epoxy and microballoons mix so I can sand it back afterwards. I have to put on the anhedral tailplane first, then sand back the fuselage top pieces then refit to the tailplane and fin and pop the tailcone on afterwards.

I have also blocked up the fuselage ready for planing and sanding which I am going to do outside this weekend hopefully.

[Graham R]

Hi,

I used to help Phil at skyway models.I built 2 of the original prototypes back in the early 90's (I think that about the date). It with 5 others flew all around the shows during theat tine and even survived a fly away at the woodspring wings show. It was found by a farmer some 3 mile away completly undamage apart from some hinges that got pulled out. Mine was only retired last year and the other is still being flown at our club.

From what I remember the canopy was indeed built in 2 pieces. The molded canopy finishing at the hoop. The front part of the canopy was a piece of thin acetate sheet.

The guy who designed it was well into slope soaring and I believe it made a good slope soarer.

It certainly was a good flyer (with a 40 up front) very smooth, flew on rails and with flaps down would fly very slowly.

Graham

Good luck with the build.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Peter Garsden on 09/09/2014 19:22:29:

Question. What sort of glue for plastic to foam or veneer? Figured epoxy or cryano. Anyway I have been trying to fashion the rear tail cone which is plastic moulding. I had to saw it down. It was like trying to put jelly in a vice. Nightmare. Managed it in the end, then used my new files from the tungsten carbide suppliers whose name escapes me, and roughed up the surface. See pictures

It's no use, I've got to ask...! The supplier's name that escapes you wouldn't happen to be the same as the one on the sanding block in the picture?

I've used epoxy on well-roughened ABS successfully.

Edited By Martin Harris on 09/09/2014 22:03:38

[Graham R]

Hi

No i'm not from perma grit.

concerning glueing abs to veneer I th ink I used epoxy with the abs roughened. With the tailpipe I seemed to remember tha we made ours from balsa with a removable end piece as the rx battery needed to be right at the back to balance it.