A TN 46'' SPITFIRE by an Intermediate builder

[onetenor]

Henri Comment allez-vous? Va bien I hope. Can I ask why you did not damp or even soak your bals for the fairings or dare I say , as A traditional builder ,why not use Depron or similar.. could even have carved Depron blo cks for the same or even less weight if using low density foam. BTW one of the best ways to fill light weight foam is light tissue and dilute pva. Gret build so far . Can't wait for flight tests. bon chance mon ami.

[onetenor]

Henri Comment allez-vous? Va bien I hope. Can I ask why you did not damp or even soak your bals for the fairings or dare I say , as A traditional builder ,why not use Depron or similar.. could even have carved Depron blo cks for the same or even less weight if using low density foam. BTW one of the best ways to fill light weight foam is light tissue and dilute pva. Gret build so far . Can't wait for flight tests. bon chance mon ami. Moderstors Sorry do not know where all those posts came from but cannot find delete. Can you delete all but one for me Thanks

[Henri Squier]

Hi all,

Thank you John and onetenor, It's so nice of you, your comments and reply support me so much.

I had last days unfortunately only little time left for my Spit. Here some little more ...

 

One thing have have to fight against finishing too fast. Some times (frequently) I pass over the last details because (i'm a little tired of building) i'm such in a hurry to see it in the sky.

I was wondering for a long time how I will attache the cowl.

These 8 mm magnet are incredibly strong. If the brushless don't mess it will not move.

I covered with light film. I tested painting : it was ok after light sanding just to take off the gloss.

Next time I will cover the whole fuse.

This time I fiber glassed it... I know, I know, It's heavy. But I promise I will not complain for weight anymore.

Fuse before = 398 gr (remember there is 100 gr of lead in the cheeks) after : 435 gr.

 

You know how I love this lady ... Sorry for the numerous pics ... but ... She is so tremendously magnificent ...

It was wood ... now it's a Spit.

What lines ....

This is my favorite ....

This picture gives (according to me) a good view of the Spit's power.

Thanks to all, henri.

Edited By Henri Squier on 29/03/2015 21:39:05

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Thing of beauty Henri

John

[Mark Kettle 1]

Very nice Henri.

[Henri Squier]

Hi everyone,

Thank you Mark, thank you again John, your comments are always a real pleasure. I don't know if you also experienced it : some times your are in for an 20 min expected job and, hours after if not days, you are still on the work !

 

At first the awful picture !!!

I know I have cried by the past for the weight and I must confess my first Spit was 1650 gr. Of course it wasn't a funfly but it didn't feel that heavy in the sky. The long long long long runway needed for landing was the main sign of overweight.

It took a surprisingly long time to fit although nothing difficult.

Technically she is now "flyable".

Thus comes the big question :

Will I maiden now ? (when the never ending storm that is going over France will please have the kindness to stop) and perhaps never have to mood to finish her ?

or

Will I have the patience to I finish completely (painting camo scheme and lettering...) and never test her in the sky by fear she won't fly well ?

Well ... I really don't know ... But I will tell you.

henri.

Edited By Henri Squier on 02/04/2015 21:07:24

[Ian101]

She looks beautiful. I think you should finish what you have started and get some finished pictures followed by a flight video.

Ian

[Henri Squier]

Hi every body,

For some days I sprayed red painting on Depron ... and let it dry 24 h.

Put on it a soft adhesive roundel and spayed blue painting (do you see me coming ?) ... and let it dry 24 h.

And today a peeled off the adhesive roundel ... and ...

The adhesive roundel came 1/ with the whole red painting and 2/ with some "hairs" coming from the blue layer !

Well ...

I have a bad feeling ...

... this thing seems not to want to cooperate.

I will make some more experiments and lest you know.

Thanks for watching, thanks Ian101 for your comment.

henri.

By the way does some one knows which glue works on canopy plastic ?

[Martin McIntosh]

I now use foam safe c.a. on canopies. It does not cause blooming.

I make any roundels I cannot buy easily from paper circles. Dope the paper for the outer then roughly paint in the blue area. Similar for the white and red ones. Coat the backs plus the fronts of the white and blue circles and the part of the model with PVA and allow to dry. Simply iron them on one at a time. Excess glue can be wiped off with a damp cloth.

[Henri Squier]

Hi,

I've been very busy this week and sadly didn't have much time to Spit play. Just some pics to tell I'm still alive ...

Dear Martin, you are 100% correct. I made it the full wrong way but at the time I received your answer I had already started and did not have the courage to go back.

My idea was (foolishly) to avoid heavy layers of light colors. So I stared with white the yellow. But as I use cans (I do not have airbrush) this is the totally wrong way because i put ten times more paint around.

Anyway it's just a (too) long process with a lot of masking roundels and this will be (again) heavy.... Well ...

I will have to live with it but clearly do not recommend it for the fuse painting.

As it's nose weight this extravagance has been allowed....

The presence of filler is due to first crash (felt from working bench) !

In this case roundel masking (up to me) is a good alternative.

1- red spray

2- red making

3- blue spray (picture)

4- blue masking

5- Camo painting

Same, but with white in addition.

By the time i'm witting a realize I forgot to paint White !!!! Urgl....

henri.

PS : Dear Peter Sorry to answer you so late but I just read you mail at the moment. I give you reply this afternoon.

[Henri Squier]

Hi Peter,

At first thanks for your nice comments and for following.

To answer you first question :

In fact the tail plan hinge line is at the same plan position.

Moving forward the tail plan would not be a good idea - by reducing the lever arm of the tail plan it will reduce its aerodynamic work and thus the stability.

 

Three modifications underwent :

1- in fact the whole tail plan has been moved back for about 1 cm

2- the tail plan control surface is 1 cm larger.

3 - the rudder hinge point has been moved back for about 1 cm (to allow mutual rudder and elevator freedom).

This result to a +1 -1 = 0 cm movement of the tail plan hinge line and, according to the plan, a rudder hinge line 1 cm backward.

 

For the LIPO (3 200 mhA , 130 x 43 x 22 mm - 261 gr) question :

 

Lateral stability is OK. I will add some scratch to avoid longitudinal movements.

But you can also stick in the lipo by the front (you will need extra wire to connect the lipo by the front).

 

So, the top opening is, in fact, useless. But I did'nt knew it at the time I decided the top opening.

You will need to fit F2 a little :

I won't lie : It was hard job.

There is very little space. It took me nearly one hour to put in place the yellow strap, more than an hour to bolt the engine and another hour (if not two) to fit the ESC into the motor mount (heat test surprisingly ok).  

 

 

Best regards, henri, hope that helps (I don't forget your third question).

Edited By Henri Squier on 11/04/2015 12:40:53

Edited By Henri Squier on 11/04/2015 12:48:04

[mightypeesh]

Hi Henri. Good to see you coming on well with the build. I love the control surface detailing you have done there - very nice. I'm a bit concerned about the size of your power system though as the wing loading will be quite high, what with all the extra retracts and stuff. I used a Eflite power 25 with a 4s lipo, which I am really happy with, I did try a 3s once but the power was too marginal for comfort (especially after all the bits I had stuck on it - must remember - build light!). If the motor is the one at the start of this thread - 1000KV DM2810? then it looks woefully under powered to me as on the data sheet for the motor it is giving a figure of 230 watts with a three cell pack, which at the moment equates to under 70 watts a pound. I may have missed something in your thread about your figures, and apologise if I have, but from what I can see I would really bite the bullet and re-think the motor and lipo combo whilst you can still hack it around without too much heart break. It would be terrible to end up with something too underpowered to enjoy flying comfortably or worse after all of your hard work.

Thank you for the compliment buy the way

Cheers, Simon

Edited By mightypeesh on 11/04/2015 13:23:33

[Henri Squier]

Hi Simon,

I'm so honored by your interest. Your TN Spit thread is at the origin of my first Spit. I owe you all my latest skills upgrade (for real !). Thank you again.

About your comment (and this will answer, Peter, your third question) ...

... it's disappointingly true.

In fact -1- :

1- believe me, I usually build light, and 1350 gr AUW (2 pounds 12 once - 47 once) were initially expected. I really don't know what happened here.

2 - for this weight this engine (already tested in my 1650 gr first Spit) would have been Ok with realistic power.

3- At the time I realized it will be overweighted fuse and nose were already made - and - like an ostrich - didn't want to face the reality (did not have the courage to saw the nose - redo the mount and nose).

4- So yes - no doubt, it is underpowered.

 

In fact -2- :

1 - before painting I got :

2 - Although data gives : one one hand 700 gr lift and one another hand 350 Watt (3S -35 A) with a 11 x 4 and is thus - on the paper - way underpowered,

3- but real life test are always interesting to consider and it tells it's just under 1/1 lift ratio.

 

So, whatever the power, the wing loading is definitely too high and I know (sadly) it won't be a pleasant bird to fly (up to what i'm looking for). As I can't do nothing anymore for the weight I decided to leave this engine in place and, nonetheless, to finish it just because this plane is so tremendously beautiful.

 

And finally -3- :

I break a little thrill : She did flew.

 

I was unable to resist (it was the day I wondered) (yes, I know. Shame on me).

It was a windy day (but it was rather a good thing allowing reducing relative landing speed for this heavy plane on the too short and too narrow runway).

Nice take off, straight on the runway and in the air. First comment : no fishing, straight, larger tail plan and rudder made the job.

After, I have to admit I was quite stressed and didn't fully record all of her reactions.

But I do felt the weight - not unflyable - but definitely heavy with a tendency to fall into the turns, the feeling it wont rise 45° as a leaf (even though I didn't try), and fearing dynamic stall when turning under the wind.

Only fantasy was a roll (In a way it's already a kind of victory !) and checking gliding behavior, no stall test. In fact gliding test was made to high and all I was able to tell is that she didn't stall immediately for reasonable medium-slow speed.

Then came (sounds long but flight time 1min53) time to come back to earth...

Same feeling that with my first Spit : very stable, very very stable. This part of the landing is, up to me, easier than with smaller and lighter planes regarding to this rock steady flying line. But ...

Too short, too short, will she make it ?, too short, too stressed to attempt to re power up, and ...

... Plof ! in the plowed field : wheels showed no utility but no harm - nothing broken.

 

Yes Simon, you are sadly right : it's not only underpowered but also heavy.

 

Even though ...

 

... I will never forget the long and powerful thrill produced by the sight of a low flying Spit in the falling day once retract switch actioned...

...

 

thanks again Simon.

Henri

Edited By Henri Squier on 11/04/2015 15:54:49

Edited By Henri Squier on 11/04/2015 15:58:47

[mightypeesh]

Hi Henri. You do not need to be honoured by my interest, we are all builders striving for that thrill of flying something that we have created from a pile of bits of balsa and wire, and for me at least, to be able to use the forums to share Idea's and builds enhances this hobby no end. Also I find it makes - what can be a fairly solitary persuit when working on a project a slightly more social affair. I take my hat off to anybody who can see a project through to the end and have a model they can fly and be proud of whatever their ability, And if your own postings help somebody else along the way it is even better. I am so glad that your flight went well. You become so emotionally attached to models when you plan or scratch build them - something that is missing from ARTF's (I am not averse to them - I have just assembled my new PA Katana MD, but I find it just that - assembly rather than building). The first and subsequent flights have a something extra to them, and just seeing your new pride and joy with the retracts going up and pulling away is fantastic. I know I am waxing lyrical, but hey ho. Anyway well done on a successful maiden and I hope you are proud of her. Any photographs of her painted up?

Glad I was of service to you, It makes the time that myself, you and all the other builders that post their builds here worth while.

Cheers to a succesful flight, Simon

[Henri Squier]

Hi,

The next pics are not of top interest but I'm working far from home and here is a pleasant place to be.

Painting adventure ....

Primer painting appeared to be 1-the right light gray color, 2- easy to found (no internet command needed), 3- not expensive, 4- very light, 5- easy to spay and gives a very nice finish :

But ...

... But very surprisingly it didn't match with the previous colors - a weird reaction appeared.

The excellent result on the thermo - film covering was the good surprise.

I was unable to totally get it back (there was still a kind of long lasting reaction), but unnoticeable at some distance.

Now let's take place for a riddle :

This is the first step for a home made spinner attempt (perhaps a little too pointed).

Would some one guess what will be my new project ?

Henri

[Spitfire fan]

Hi Henri and thanks for the both replies. Yes you covered all three points. I am not adding retracts and I may now only partly glass the modeI so I figure a 3S x 3,200mAh battery will be Ok. I would still like to try the same battery location as you, however can you confirm, is it necessary to remove the wings to change the battery or can this be done from the front access ? If the wings do need to come off I might look for an alternative method of battery location and fixing.

Regards,

Peter.

[Martin McIntosh]

If this is of any help and encouragement, my OS 26FS powered version was 3lb 10oz without fuel and balanced perfectly with no added nose weight. The max. power of the motor was 0.4 BHP or about 300W in practical terms at the outside so an electric set up should easily be as good as this. The performance was not great but take offs, landings and loops were no problem.

[Henri Squier]

Hi,

Thank you Martin this is indeed of great help and encouragement !! As you will see on next photos, she begins now to have her complete dress, and I'm becoming more and more attached to her...

I'm anxious but full of hurry to see her in the sky.

Dear Peter, I confirm you : it is NOT necessary to remove the wing to change the battery nor is the top opening necessary. The battery can be changed only with the "cowl" opening but you will perhaps need extra wire length in order to connect the battery "outside".

Close to the (edge) sky...

I don't know for you but for me no joy came out doing this.

This was more pleasant.

Peeling off the tape was funny.

Well... I know this forum have seen far more advanced models, but for me it's a real event.

I'm very happy.

I've never been so far in the building and I really have to thank you all here for your support.

Alone I clearly wouldnt' be able to reach that point.

Henri.

 

 

 

Edited By Henri Squier on 15/04/2015 21:21:47

[Ian101]

What a difference a bit of paint makes.

Looks great to me Henri.

[Rosco]

I've been quietly following your build also Henri and I rekon she looks great too. I'm looking forwards to a flight video if you are planning on one.

Edited By Rosco on 16/04/2015 02:52:27

[Spitfire fan]

Hello again Henri and thanks for the confirmation on the access and fixing of the battery. Great paint job, it looks really nice.

Regards,

Peter.

[Henri Squier]

Hi,

 

Aaarrrgl....

Damned myself ! In a hurry to finish (as usual, shame on me, as usual...) I ruined my lettering :

(You can also see the long lasting weird reaction between two different paintings)

 

Well, never mind. I will leave it as it is, anyway I finished the last drop of every painting and don't want to do more ugly patches.

And... in fact... I have to say... I'm happy with the overall result

This one is perhaps my favorite :

 

Sorry, sorry, I know all this photos could sound as a self ego hypertrophy but it's not, please believe me : It's just the expression of the tremendous fascination this plane produces on me.

Thanks to all, henri

Edited By Henri Squier on 18/04/2015 17:07:25

[Shane Sunday]

Its lovely. Makes me want to build another.

[mightypeesh]

Hi Henri, she looks great, well done. I really like the curved fusalage - it makes all the difference to the appearance and make me wantto consider another Spit. Trouble is I have more projects on the go than hours in the day!

Cheers, Simon

[Henri Squier]

Dear Simon :

Could we have (perhaps like most of us here) the same sickness ?

May I ask you what king of material have you used for the wheels of your Racing Mustang ? Is it scrap out of salvage (and which kind ?) or special thing hardly sought after on Internet ?

Henri.