Germanwings crash

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by Mogs on 27/03/2015 14:26:56:

That said there are many scenarios that involve to co-pilot being incapacitated while alone that do warrant a second person, being able to open the door.

That's not a problem Mogs - if someone was alone in the cockpit the staff have an emergency override keypad access. If the person inside does not press a "deny access" button within a certain time then the door opens. So if the person was incapacitated then could not press the deny access. The problem in this case was that the co-pilot wasn't incapacitated and so was able to deny access.

BEB

[ted hughes]

In my original comment I did not intend to be sexist. I was just trying to supply examples of pressures pertinent to different crew. Apologies for not making my points clearly.

My main point is, increasing the number of crew who have access to the cockpit will not necessarily decrease risk, and may increase it.

I get the point that the third crew member will just be expected to open the door. But it is a bit crazy that we feel we need to baby sit the pilots.

And what if the steward or stewardess who is given access to the cockpit is the one crew member who is the one mentally imbalanced?

My view is we should select the best crew we can and give them the best support in the way of physical and mental health care-allowing other staff to sit with them may not help.

[Dave Hopkin]

It sounds like he had been concealing his illness for some time, just heard on the radio that the German Prosecutor has says they found several sick notes that he had from his private doctor but didnt declaee to the company flight surgeon otherwise he would be grounded

So I guess some review on the mental state monitoring and screening for aircrew will be one of the outcomes of all this

Very sad indeed

[John F]

Posted by ted hughes on 27/03/2015 15:15:36:

My view is we should select the best crew we can and give them the best support in the way of physical and mental health care-allowing other staff to sit with them may not help.

They already get that but you can't "give" them physical and mental health care unless they need physical and mental health care and when they do need that they're unfit flying, if it warrants it, until deemed safe.

The only way to avoid a single person having sole control of an aircraft is to always have two people in the cockpit.  Second guessing if a steward will try to take over the aircraft is just self defeating before the safety standards are put in place.

Edited By John F on 27/03/2015 15:37:37

[kc]

Bring back flight engineers?

[Erfolg]

I am not sure that more people permanently on the flight deck is the answer.

Take the flight engineer. What are the consequences if he decides to shut down all the engines. Or perhaps ensure that all the rearward fuel tanks have the remaining fuel, at some point in the flight. I am sure that knowledgeable people can come up with far more compelling scenarios. Where it could take some minutes for the rest of the crew to have worked out what is being done.

Putting things into perspective, this is event is most unusual.

Perhaps just changing procedures on the flight deck and perhaps, recognising that mental health checks, need to be as rigorous as physical checks if they are not already. Perhaps something as prosaic as acknowledging that changes in personal relationships can have profound effects on an individual. Although how you would monitor this aspect without being intrusive, I do not know.

[kc]

It's not that unusual - BBC quote 4 suspected plane suicides. And nobody knows about MH 370 - could be another.

Anyway lets change the subject a bit. What about some praise for the rescue workers? Very hazardous I should think and horrible having to deal with 150 mutilated bodies. And not even the chance of actually rescuing someone therefore risking their own lives for very little. Of course there is the requirement to recover the plane parts to ensure there was no technical fault but that seems unlikely now. Heroes!

[Bill_B]

Fact, or fiction? **LINK**

[WolstonFlyer]

I wondered how long it would take for that to surface, I actually said the same thing to my wife yesterday morning... we will have to wait and see what else is found by the investigation.

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

Quote from John F :

''But, arguably, what does that entail? Train drivers? Taxi Drivers? HGV's?

The other aspect is whether the Doctor is qualified to determine fitness to work. All Doctors need to be Aviation Medical Examiner qualified in order to understand the limitations and stresses imposed upon a pilot. You would need the same guidance for such work as driving trains and HGV's........''

Thanks alot John .completely true..

Cheers

Jo

[perttime]

One thing about medical regulations is that the "threat" of being grounded can be an incentive towards trying to hide your problems - especially to a person who loves flying instead of just working in the cockpit.

My general feeling is that adding rules and regulations "for your own good" and for the "common good", while not paying attention to the psychological impact of the restrictions, can be a great incentive towards attempts to circumvent the rules and regulations.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"