Jon H Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 From the data provided they hit the mountain at about 380kts. You would not expect to see much left after that. Hopefully the CVR will shed some light on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josip Vrandecic -Mes Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Lasted news : ''If the head of Germanwings on Monday confirmed that their Airbus fell 8 minutes, new evidence suggests that his agony lasted 18 minutes. French Minister of Transport Segolene Royal said that the flight crew is stopped with ATC communicate in 10:30, and the plane is in the Alps hit in 10:48 hours. Airbus agony lasted 18 not 8 minutes...'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 If that's correct Josip, it means that they lost contact five minutes after take-off, while the plane was climbing to its' flight level. Maybe the crew had no reason to make contact during that time, of course, they would have been busy. It might not change anything. Hopefully we'll find out, but it all seems to depend on the damaged flight recorder and any surviving cockpit voice recordings, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_B Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Don't know what new 'evidence' has surfaced, but the radar plot definitely shows about 8 mins. Not sure how that could be misinterpreted in anyway. See below: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josip Vrandecic -Mes Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hi Dear Colin , for this information I was warned by my brother who lives in Nice (source: French newspaper).But , will see. Jo Edited By Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 25/03/2015 12:37:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hi Josip. I don't doubt that it is true, I was just thinking that during that stage of the flight the crew might not have been transmitting once they had cleared Barcelona and established themselves in the climb, they'd have been busy and wouldn't have needed to call at that stage of the flight perhaps. The mystery appears still to be that once the plane had departed from cruising altitude and was on its' way down, no Mayday call was made. As you say, we'll se, hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Armitage Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Its just been reported on the Daily Mail website, that it may have been caused by the windscreen cracking. Apparantly, the story is been talked about on a professional pilots forum. Supposedly, data has been recovered already from the black box, and a loud crack can be heard on the voice recorder.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 It's ironic isn't it? Our humble models are able to continually transmit their status to the ground. You'd think in this age of high-bandwidth communications, the content of the flight data recorder could be transmitted to the ground every 30 seconds or so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Posted by jack Armitage on 25/03/2015 13:22:35: Its just been reported on the Daily Mail website, that it may have been caused by the windscreen cracking. Apparantly, the story is been talked about on a professional pilots forum. Oh dear, I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that if the Daily Mail have reported that then it's almost certainly not true... The "professional pilots forum" is almost certainly pprune.org. I haven't looked in there today, but yesterday the discussion was exactly as expected. Mostly reasonably well informed speculation - the posters tend to be pilots or ATC staff, and there's much speculation on the cause(s). A few have posted the usual warnings there to caution others on what they say, as journalists will be looking there for sensational stuff to report that they can claim comes from "reliable sources"... As for the rate of descent that Peter mentioned, yes it could (would?) have descended much faster in a sudden depressurization incident. I watched one incident a few months ago on flightradar24 where a Portugese airliner passing just to the NW of Paris at around 38,000 feet lost cabin pressure. They set 7700 and in the initial descent were coming down at about 8,000 ft/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaunie Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I've been looking at pprune, the thread is about 30 pages at the moment. One post reported that the largest single piece of debris is the size of a car. She went in mighty quick, if that was into a rising face at almost 90 degrees then it wouldn't be surprising. There is a great amount of talk over how many of each nationality were aboard, it's immaterial in my opinion, what it was is the unfortunate and untimely death of 150 people, their nationality means nothing compared to that. My thoughts are with the families of all those who died. Shaunie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I lurk on Pprune mainly for the entertainment value as the general view is that most 'experts' on there gain most of their experience on MS Flight Simulator and much of what is spouted is nonsense. Unfortunately, the Press hang on every word written there, which is why the DM and others so frequently get it so spectacularly wrong. I'm glad I'm not a mod over there - it seems the page count on the relevant thread shrunk from 20 to 14 pages at one stage once they started 'pruning' (sorry) the dross.... Any CVR data, if they've even extracted anything useful from it yet, will not be in the public domain until BEA, etc, think fit, so you might just as well totally ignore comments from unverified sources. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josip Vrandecic -Mes Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html?_r=0 Shocking info...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Posted by Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 26/03/2015 07:26:11: **LINK** Shocking info...... From an unnamed "military source" - but contradicted by the french air crash investigator spokesman who said they will have a initial understanding in a matter of days - so while "pilot locked out" makes good headlines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Looking at the pictures of the wreckage it looks is if the aircraft hit on the ridge and just shredded itself into both valleys. A comment made by someone who was involved with the Lockerbie investigation was that that aircraft was in relatively large pieces and so could be reconstructed but this one would be almost impossible to do. I was on a team that recovered a Canberra that went in vertically from about 1000 feet. Apart from the engines there were only two bits that took more than one person to carry away. Another Canberra literally shredded itself down a valley. I wasn't on that one but those who were described it. I am very glad that I am not on this recovery team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perttime Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 This smudge was a result of a roughly vertical dive at high speed. I believe the largest recovered piece was a tyre - and then there was lots of carbon fibre dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area 51 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 With this latest news of one crew members being "locked" out of the flt deck; one really does hope the full cabin of passengers were not watching this vain atempt to re enter the cockpit! If this is the case, this is a sad turn in events. One article I read yesterday mentioned the local villagers seeing the airbus pass overhead and into the valley, they did not know the outcome until seeing it on TV later, however one couple mentioned seeing the airbus, and then shortly after two fighter airplanes... This is not reported anyway else. I am presumming they later in this serious of events and possibly scrambled to intercept/visit the last know radar trace. Still an awful lot of unanswered questions.. Lets us hope the FDR is recovered ASAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essjay Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Aviation "expert" on the news this morning was saying that even if the cabin door was locked that there is a " way" which is not broadly advertised on modern airliners to overide the door lock and gain entry in such circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_B Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Posted by Essjay on 26/03/2015 10:53:42: Aviation "expert" on the news this morning was saying that even if the cabin door was locked that there is a " way" which is not broadly advertised on modern airliners to overide the door lock and gain entry in such circumstances. Really? So why wasn't the FO able to gain entry then? I might respectfully suggest that so called 'expert' was talking ....[removed]. There isn't a 'a way' to gain entry other than from inside the cockpit for security reasons, obvious really. Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 26/03/2015 12:22:03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 There are lots of comments that we shouldn't speculate about the cause but await the official judgement. However speculation has raised lots of interesting points including the fact that this plane was quite old and that these older planes seem to be 'hived off' to their own budget airline subsidiaries. Whilst this might make sense to accountants it makes passngers think twice. I thought the true startup budget airlines used brand new planes......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_B Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Area 51, it's standard protocol since 9-11 for the military to intercept when a civil plane deviates from its flight path, or fails to communicate with ATC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area 51 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Posted by Bill_B on 26/03/2015 11:30:37: Area 51, it's standard protocol since 9-11 for the military to intercept when a civil plane deviates from its flight path, or fails to communicate with ATC. Yes I understand this Bill, however they must have been in the area - correct? As from the top of descent to impact was less than 15mins! Therefore for ATC to react and request military support of this nature (two fighters at the scene), to scramble and get to the area would take more than 15mins.. maybe not in the fighters were airborne or at a local faciltiy and QRA I read now they have named the pilots, lets hope that debunks any silly theorys here.. they may well have been protecting the families from media intrusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I know the days are long gone for this, but all this speculation expert opinion etc stinks to me. People have lost their families and the media behave like vultures. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 It isn't just the media, John, many folk on here have also speculated quite a lot. Now that it was confirmed that the co-pilot locked the door and started an eight minute descent intentionally there will be a very different angle to the media and forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 It was thought that an excercise was going on in the vicinty and that was why fighters were able to be on the scene quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area 51 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Posted by John F on 26/03/2015 12:05:41: It isn't just the media, John, many folk on here have also speculated quite a lot. Now that it was confirmed that the co-pilot locked the door and started an eight minute descent intentionally there will be a very different angle to the media and forums. WOW! Was it the co-pilot? I have not read if it was the Captain or 1st officer who was locked in or out! Surely this is further speculation unless it is factual and known as such. To say it was the co-pilot points a finger directly at one individual and allows the media to speculate accordingley and this will involve the co-pilots family! The FDR needs to be recovered and this will clear indicate who and how a descent into terrain was initiated.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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