Olly P Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Posted by john stones 1 on 01/07/2015 23:42:28: Anyone going the EGM, or is your club sending a rep, looks like i'm going I never got trampled in the rush of volunteers John Not even been invited, but then I am a 'country member' and therefore of limited value. I know this sounds negative, but the club structure works for many, but not all BMFA members. I have my view on how the majority of what I would consider model flyers now fly and that is not within clubs, and not even as country members, but in the local park, or back garden, flying pre-assembled quad copters. These are the future fliers we need to try to capture, otherwise the BMFA will never grow. Why is this relevant to a NFC? Well, most of the 'quaders' will probably only join as country members (why pay more to do what they already do by joining a club) and unless we feel we are getting something out of the proposal then that won't happen. So would an NFC benefit country members??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobo Twelve Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 It's beginning to seem like nobody has a clear handle on what's being proposed or what's at stake here. Lot's of people mentioning using the new site for the Nats. That's not going to be possible. The size of plots of land that are available within the budget set out, even with enormous loans are nowhere near the size of the heath or any other military airfield. The only solution would be to split the nats over about a month or so of weekends to fit in the multiple flightlines and that would dilute the interest significantly. We keep hearing "the future is at threat". Is it really? Sure numbers of competition modellers may be waning but just how many non-BMFA members do you know who have bought or received a mini helicopter or quad for Christmas in the past few years? These things are selling in the thousands if not millions, it is up to us as BMFA members to encourage the more casual flyer to join a club and/or the BMFA, if only to encourage more responsible use (and insurance). The indoor scene is a good example of throwing open the doors to the hobby, why doesn't the BMFA hold open days in local school sportshalls, on a bring and fly, learn how to use your new toy, have a go with our model etc. basis? Surely buying a field is not going to influence these people to begin in the hobby? Competitions and shows do that but a new field isn't going to replace any of the major shows. "Worth the gamble", "We need to take the risk" has been mentioned too. Again, gambling well over £1m of cost and debt would be disastrous for the hobby and land in the middle of nowhere is not necessarily a good investment. If there is even a vague hint that housing could be built, we won't be able to buy the land in the first place. Also, the only pieces of land that can possibly be developed into housing in the near future is directly next to other housing, towns, villages and major roads. All of these things mean that using that land for large flying events (or even club flying) will not be allowed. The price of land is determined by the potential use. If this was a clearly funded proposal, showing how the costs were being covered, where the long term funding was coming from for a serious centre then great. But that's not the case. Let's be clear here, the EGM is for a vote to allow the board to go ahead with a purchase of land with no specifics, no idea of costs, potentially no permission to fly with no further consultation of the membership. Let's face facts, what's stopping an existing club field being bought by the BMFA and then calling it the national centre? That would be a disgraceful way for the BMFA to go, piling the costs of one club onto the national membership. Approaching this as 'an emergency decision' is very poor indeed. Here's hoping the proposal is rejected in it's current form. Lobo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobo Twelve Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Well said Olly P, great minds think alike ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I think a great many of the quad/park flyers are not even aware a club structure exists! And I think a great many of them are totally unaware of the legalities of flying and the need for insurance Whether thats a majority or not I have no idea But you are spot on Olly thats the audience the BMFA have to engage with and recruit A national flying centre wont attract them at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extra slim Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Olly is dead right.....Very easy for the BMFA to engage.....put a FPV Quad racing championships on at the Nats as a "side show"...will bring in loads of new types (entrants, spectators, trade) who probably didn't realise the scale of the interest, and may well diversify into other disciplines, just like we do with quads and the likes. like them or loath them, ambivalent to them, heli's, quads and FPV is the future of our hobby in terms of participants and technical innovation, it is on the first few rungs of a ladder and climbing rapidly...get them now!!, act swiftly...something the BMFA struggles with IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 Hobby King show gets good reviews from lads at our club and don't be writing non quad,fpv and helis flyers obituarys out just yet ..thank you kindly there's life in the old dog yet John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Certainly the Nats should include Multirotors and FPV, however I think the BMFA have missed the boat on that one **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Posted by extra slim on 02/07/2015 14:27:20: Olly is dead right.....Very easy for the BMFA to engage.....put a FPV Quad racing championships on at the Nats as a "side show"...will bring in loads of new types (entrants, spectators, trade) who probably didn't realise the scale of the interest, and may well diversify into other disciplines, just like we do with quads and the likes. like them or loath them, ambivalent to them, heli's, quads and FPV is the future of our hobby in terms of participants and technical innovation, it is on the first few rungs of a ladder and climbing rapidly...get them now!!, act swiftly...something the BMFA struggles with IMO. Isn't this entire thread a result of the BMFA attempting to act too swiftly? I suspect a large part of the confusion is that securing the future of model flying (in whatever form), and securing the future of the BMFA as a national governing body are not the same things. As a country member myself, apart from insurance, I see very little direct benefit from the BMFA (my club is not affiliated). I echo Olly's sentiment that if the NFC went ahead, it would have to benefit country members as much as club members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Is the NFC Vision to promote the Hobby or to Promote the BMFA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Posted by Dave Hopkin on 02/07/2015 14:56:32: Is the NFC Vision to promote the Hobby or to Promote the BMFA? Dave, that's the best question that's been asked in the entire thread so far... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 It's a card vote..I've never been to a meeting of this sort, will the votes be counted and announced at the meeting ? john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Posted by Lobo Twelve on 02/07/2015 13:47:59: Lot's of people mentioning using the new site for the Nats. That's not going to be possible. The size of plots of land that are available within the budget set out, even with enormous loans are nowhere near the size of the heath or any other military airfield. The only solution would be to split the nats over about a month or so of weekends to fit in the multiple flightlines and that would dilute the interest significantly. Then that is (literally) a great big fat show stopper if ever there was one! Imagine if after the new Wembley Stadium was finished, the FA said "sorry chaps, it's turned out a bit small so only room for 5 A Side" Edited By Cuban8 on 02/07/2015 15:20:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Posted by Cuban8 on 02/07/2015 15:15:23: Posted by Lobo Twelve on 02/07/2015 13:47:59: Lot's of people mentioning using the new site for the Nats. That's not going to be possible. The size of plots of land that are available within the budget set out, even with enormous loans are nowhere near the size of the heath or any other military airfield. The only solution would be to split the nats over about a month or so of weekends to fit in the multiple flightlines and that would dilute the interest significantly. Then that is (literally) a great big fat show stopper if ever there was one! Imagine if after the new Wembley Stadium was finished, the FA said "sorry chaps, it's turned out a bit small so only room for 5 A Side" Edited By Cuban8 on 02/07/2015 15:20:00 Agreed that the Nats is a fairly pivotal point. However, while it may not be possible in their current format, the Heath doesn't sound like it'll be available indefinitely, either, so future Nats may have to be smaller wherever it is based. I would really like to think that the requirement for a successful Nats is something that has been thoroughly thought about, even if they haven't told us, yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Jackson Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 My 2 pennerth for what its worth as a "mature" modeller of some 40 odd years and member of 2 clubs. I remember going to Goosedale for a day out years ago with guys from the club I was in then and great it was but I'd have been hard pushed to justify another visit. i enjoyed the Nats for the first time last year and will make the effort again this year but its a huge area for all those disciplines but theres lots to see and do. I've been to Weston on and off for 20 years, camping, one day trips , caravanning and the reason(s). Its esay for me to get to and it spans everything including drones this year and a good trade turn out. This year I've never seen so many there. I thought I'd got there early to camp on the friday and struggled for a pitch - thats serious footfall. But it does show what a club can do IN conjunction with another outfit. The Weston people were great, emptying toilets regularly, litter picking etc For me the BMFA have lost the plot - like Dave Hopkin above says - "what are they really promoting", certainly not my support!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extra slim Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Wright Stuff...Yeah I agree too quickly on the topic of this thread..sorry.. But in some circumstances moving quickly is good. And John..I am not writing off Non Quad, Heli flyers etc, as I am one of those (well the odd heli and living room quad)...I certainly hope there is life in it for me too....I think you know what I meant, in terms of looking where the growth is and moving with the times, so that as a "collective"...it could help us all.... May not, may break up into fragmented breakaway movements. Anyway, slight digression from the main arm of the NFC thread, which clearly suffers from a lack of a published set of clear objectives.....already expressed and exasperated well on this forum, and as many say..without them, all of our points are speculative really. COME ON BMFA...WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO IT FOR?? We are all ears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The lack of a clear understanding of what the function of a NFC is central as to why we are never able to get to grips with its value. Colin wants new young members, others are aware of the vast number of Flying Toys bought annually, other see the Nats as pivotal. For me the Nats is easy to deal with, I could not care if it never was run again, for possibly 90% of the membership it is an irrelevance. Why would the bulk of the BMFA funds be challenged into providing this one event. That is other than there will be a lot of technical committee members and fellows who have 5 votes each, it probably the very pinnacle of their interests, and possibly see those that do not agree, as misguided and even lacking vision. What about all those flying toys that are purchased? They are bought as toys. Many are models to us. Yet, again they are bought as toys. Perhaps rather than rail against there irresponsible use in large open parks and waste land, the BMFA could be more accommodating. Although I suspect that 90% will never come near a club and then mainly if they are older men. A NFC is irrelevant to this group, even the BMFA means nothing. As to younger modellers. I once was a child, that is before I matured into a grumpy intolerant old man. I do remember that I was not in any hurry to join a club, never mind one that loves it regulations. I am now a grandfather of 3, all girls. One of which makes things, is creative, and does fly (from time to time) a small number of models which i have bought her, or she has sequester. I have noted that the intensity of involvement, the passion and durability of those passions, are not the same with a young person. There passions are intense, fleeting or should that be short of duration. Parents, especially dads probably hope that their sons will follow them in the hobby, in most cases this will not happen. In short I try to provide opportunities to enjoy a pastime, i realise that tomorrow the attention could be else where. So these toys can be the catalyst for a future modeller as we older people are, but not today. As for models to build HK do some very simple kits for a few pounds, laser cut, quick to assemble. But again a NFC does nothing for youngsters, in any shape or form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Posted by john stones 1 on 02/07/2015 15:14:14: It's a card vote..I've never been to a meeting of this sort, will the votes be counted and announced at the meeting ? john Yes, my understanding is that the count made and result made available to attendees then and there - perhaps some of the BMFA concil members who have posted can confirm this though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Erf, I understand and respect every point you make, and I even agree with most of them. However, it also sounds like you consider the whole concept of the BMFA to be an irrelevance in today's day and age. Am I the only one on the entire forum who seems to think this creates a paradox? So reverse the question. What, then, do you value about the BMFA as an organisation, that couldn't be achieved without them in their current form? If it's so meaningless and incapable, what are you so afraid of losing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Posted by The Wright Stuff on 02/07/2015 16:57:28: Erf, I understand and respect every point you make, and I even agree with most of them. However, it also sounds like you consider the whole concept of the BMFA to be an irrelevance in today's day and age. Am I the only one on the entire forum who seems to think this creates a paradox? So reverse the question. What, then, do you value about the BMFA as an organisation, that couldn't be achieved without them in their current form? If it's so meaningless and incapable, what are you so afraid of losing? My views on the importance of the BMFA 1) Representative for Model Flying with the CAA (Hence Government) 2) Lobby Pressure Group to defend model flying against legislation 3) Provider of reasonably priced insurance 4) Custodian of the standards of the achievements scheme 5) Resource for legal advice for model flying issues 6) Central Repository for best practices 7) Organiser of National and International Competitions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Posted by Percy Verance on 02/07/2015 20:25:02: None of which require a costly model flying centre........... You spotted the large grey animal with tusks and a trunk in the corner then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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