Notes about the Ballerina plan

[kc]

Peter Miller has very kindly provided me with a copy of his original drawing so that I can compare that with the printed version from the magazine. I will use this to see if any areas need clarifcaion or amendment. These notes may help builders with little experience of interpreting plans if they are cutting their own parts rather than buying the lasercut parts..

1. First thing of note is the grain direction on balsa formers F5, F7 , F8, F9 & F10. Peter has said elsewhere that the intended grain direction is vertical not horizontal as shown on the printed plan. It does not make too much difference but it's easier to cut from 4inch sheet.

2. The dowel hole in F2 is shown lower than on Peter's original and the dowel is shown much shorter. Dowel should be 60mm instead of 31mm. R1 should therefore have a longer slot of 50mm. Height of slot in R1 seems to be shown too low so maybe a revised drawing for this part will be needed.

3. The plan shows a groove formed in the undercarriage bearer in the wing. This groove is shown a little narrow but it needs to match the 8SWG piano wire. So groove should be 4mm. Adjust the width of the 7/16 liteply parts to form 4mm groove.

[kc]

Further to item 2 above

This applies only if you are cutting your own parts ( lasercut parts will presumably have F2 drilled already )

Peter drew the dowel at 1/2 inch from base of F2 ( instead of 1/4 as magazine plan ) and this gives a bit more strength. The dowel hole centreline in F2 is meant to be 1/2 above base and actually drilled a little high for filing so wing actully fits in nicely, so hole is drilled about 9/16 ich above base. Therefore the slot in R1 should be changed accordingly. The bottom of the slot in R1 should now be along the line of the TOP of the slot actually drawn. The top of the new slot is therefore 6mm higher than that line and the slot now extends to 50mm.

 

This is my drawing of the revised R1 -just Snowpaked out and slot redrawn ( just my opinion of what it should be - we will see if Peter agrees )

Edited By kc on 11/12/2015 17:46:25

Edited By kc on 11/12/2015 17:57:18

[Geoff S]

On Point 2: which Peter mentioned before in another thread:

1: How much higher should the dowel hole be on F2?

2: If the hole needs to be higher, then presumably the slot in R2 also needs to be not only longer (to accommodate a longer dowel, which is fine) but also in a different place on the rib. Nearer the top? The hole can't move too much or the slot will no longer be a slot.

Points 1 and 3 are much easier to allow for.

I think a roughish sketch would be sufficient.

Thanks for those comments. They're very helpful.

Geoff

PS OK I posted too soon. Your second post clears it up nicely, thanks

Edited By Geoff Sleath on 11/12/2015 17:47:13

[kc]

Geoff I think my latest edited version now includes the drawing. There is comment on the dimensions too. You can see in my drawing that the entire slot is above the old slot. Of course if anyone has cut R1 then it need to be done with a new piece of balsa as it's critical to strength. But it's only a tiny bit of 1/8 balsa.

If it's not clear now then I will clarify later.

[kc]

Peter has clarified a couple of other points too

4. Grain direction on the fin is in line with the hinge line. The extra width on the sheet is always added at the leading edge.

( of course the fin has to go all the way down to the tailplane and it also goes down to the tailplane seat at the very front part which is not too obvious from the RCME plan, so to make it from 4 inch sheet you need to join on about 1 inch at the front and this extra bit is about 3.25 inches tall  .)

5. Wing tips are just sheet covering the full area with thin 3/32" balsa outlines to round them off.

Edited By kc on 11/12/2015 19:03:20

[Peter Miller]

People who have bought the complete pack of parts could use the parts as provided but I would make the dowle slot longer. Or you could make new parts. You choice.

If you go and look at the original build blog for Ballerina there are step by step photos for most of the construction.

Ballerina thread here

Edited By Peter Miller on 11/12/2015 18:46:38

[kc]

6. The holes for the 'snakes' in F6 to F10 are drawn rather small in the RCME plan. A SLEC Heavy Duty snake needs a 5.5mm hole. It will be much easier to cut the correct hole size to suit your snakes whilst the formers are being cut rather than once assembled! Note that the formers are drawn showing the front face. They all need to face the same way or the holes won't line up.

[Peter Miller]

See the other post that I have just made about the formers being too wide and the fuselage shape being wider than the orginal at the rear.

I have just started singing "all of the monkeys ain't in the zoo!!!!!"

[WolstonFlyer]

Any possibility of getting a PDF / scanned copy of the correct formers etc or would that then cause further problems with the rest of the plan from the magazine?

[Stephen Jones]

Posted by Peter Miller on 11/12/2015 18:44:56:

People who have bought the complete pack of parts could use the parts as provided but I would make the dowle slot longer. Or you could make new parts. You choice.

If you go and look at the original build blog for Ballerina there are step by step photos for most of the construction.

Ballerina thread here

Edited By Peter Miller on 11/12/2015 18:46:38

Sounds similar to me . Did you send in the hard working copy of the plan or a electric copy ?

Steve

[Whatgoesup....]

Posted by Peter Miller on 19/12/2015 14:23:30:

See the other post that I have just made about the formers being too wide and the fuselage shape being wider than the orginal at the rear.

I have just started singing "all of the monkeys ain't in the zoo!!!!!"

Is it just the free plan in the magazine that is incorrect ? Will the plan listed on myhobbystore be a true copy of Peter's plan - it just seems there are a lot of discrepancies creeping in which will make things more complicated !

[kc]

. The discrepancies are quite small. It will just be a bit easier to get all the details right before the novice builders start building. Drilling of dowel hole in F2 and changing rib to match is biggest thing. It won't matter much either way.

[McG 6969]

@ Peter,

I feel very sorry for you discovering what the 'redesigning computer-man' did to your drawings.

After the wing dowel & F2 mishap, this adds another dimension to the situation.

Please don't worry, nobody is going to blame you for this.

As a nationwide (and more) leading publisher, I hope they will be fast to correct this publicly by providing their subscribers and readers with an appropriate 'correctum'.

As Wolstonflyer suggested, a correcting .pdf would be respectful to all.

I'm afraid this could hardly convince lots of 'new' people to start building & if IRRC this is one of the main goals of the Mass Build.

And I'm really not talking about myself here. I'm a total newbie to RC & building but I will go on and correcting the aft-fuse to the dimensions as Peter's original intention and drawings.

Take care & happy pre-Xmas prepping.

Chris

Brussels, Belgium

[Peter Miller]

Well the rear fuselarge has been widened to match the wider formers. so it should build OK. Just go ahead from the plan.

I have seend far worse changes to my plans.

I draw my plans and trace them. then build my own model from the print of the tracing. I then correct any of my own drawing errors so everything fits.

I then send a copy of a print from my corrected tracing to the editor. It is then scanned and emailed to Corfu. There it is rearranged to fit the full size plan format and is emailed back.

I am normally sent a PDF file and when I have time I get it printed off and check it by laying my own tracing over it.

I then tell the editor of any errors. Usually most of the rrors are corrected but not always.

This time I only got the plans on FRiday night and was told that Press day was on the Monday.

[McG 6969]

@ kc,

I really have to show a great respect to your preparation work & your help to clarify things for the novice builders.

But when you write "It won't matter much either way", I'm afraid I can't agree totally.

The basic choice of the MB 2016 was to celebrate Peter Miller's global designing career & bringing the vote to one of his proposed models, right?

Now, my humble opinion is that we shouldn't 'just deal with it'. If the tribute to the designer isn't what he was entitled to expect, some corrections should be evident. At least out of respect to him & for his followers.

"Errare humanum est" (sorry for this, BEB), but humans could also consider to correct their mistakes...

If I was putting my soul in a nice design (remember, Peter wrote it looked 'prettier' than his Arlequin), I wouldn't really appreciate someone making the aft-fuselage some kind of 'pregnant'...

Happy prepping to all

Chris

Brussels, Belgium

[Peter Miller]

Don't worry, it will not be very obvious and it will build OK.

I have checke\d and it will not affect the build at all.

The holes for the snakes may be out but if one opend up the holes on all the formers it will not matter so long as the snakes are held firmly in the slots on th side of the fuselage and at F-6, the light ply former.

The rest of the holes just support the snake.

[kc]

A couple of items have been noted in other build blogs

Rear wing spar location on the plan is slightly different to wing rib notches by about 2mm, however if you follow the instructions in RCME " position the rear spar by using a couple of ribs to get the location correct" all should be well.

The written instructions in RCME for building the wing are for a better method than some people use, so it's well worth while following Peter's method to the letter.......having the lower LE sheeting in place from the beginning certainly helps make an unwarped wing.

If you intend using aileron servos out on the wing then make provision for the servo leads by cutting holes for the paper tube etc in the ribs before building wings.

Finally a point that always needs attention yet is so easy to get wrong is to ensure that when you fit the fuselage doublers that you make a left side and a right fuselage side. Don't make two right sides or two left!   Mark which sides are to be the inside before you apply the glue!

Edited By kc on 26/12/2015 17:17:30

[kc]

In another thread it is mentioned that although the RCME plan suggests the tailplane is mounted a little behind F10 that is not really correct. Peter said "the stab is the right shape but if positioned as shown you then have to make a cut out in the rudder to clear the elevator joiner

Just butt the tailplane up against F-10. If you want to be fussy you can fill in under the fin between the tailplane and rear of the fuselage with some scrap."

Some discussion on width of F7 was resolved when it was pointed out that the ply doubler does not go that far aft so F7 is slightly wider than F6. So plan is correct.