Martin Harris - Moderator Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 That seems a bit cynical, JR - he's been put in touch with the engineer, not the oily rag! What more can you ask for at this stage? If Peter recognises it as a manufacturing fault I'm in little doubt that Ripmax will sort things out to Adrian's satisfaction. Give 'em a chance.... (No connection etc. other than as a previously satisfied customer.) Edited By Martin Harris on 19/12/2015 11:31:37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Peter should set it right for you. One man is not a company when it comes to customer service! As for those performance figures, they more or less match our 360v glow engine which is 58cc and obviously 4 stroke. I use up to 24x8 menz props and see about 6300rpm. Our idle is better though, I can get 1500 easy Anyway, this gives me something to aim for in a petrol version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrman Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 He wouldn't admit that there was a manufacturing fault on a number of my engines which is why I went to OS directly. They admitted the problem (in writing) and responded accordingly. That's customer service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Smith 1 Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 Jon, I have studied your website and engine selection and they are very interesting. It's not that I am agin glow engines, but when running the bigger glows the cost of running then is quite dear compared to petrol which is really why I went the petrol route. If you do go that route I would be very interested. Are saying Jrman that if it's a manufacturing fault he or Ripmax won't acknowledge the fact just to get out of it? It's too late now for me at the moment as I have sent it back to Ripmax. May be you care to expand on what you have stated as I would be interested. You use the phrase "a number of engines" , but on my OS experience over the years a duff one is a rarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Glow fuel is more expensive than petrol, there is no getting away from that, but our engines are probably the cheapest glow engines to run that you are likely to find. We use less fuel than our competitors, less nitro (none even if you want) and less oil for a cleaner model, and the price of running petrol would be offset by higher cost of the engine in the first place so its not always a simple calculation! That's said, for big engines petrol is really the way to go and its what people want so that is what I am working on. My first prototype at 29cc is no less powerful than its glow brother and is very fuel efficient. you could fly more than a 10 minute flight on a 5oz tank :D Edited By Jon Harper - Laser Engines on 19/12/2015 19:33:49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Saroli Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Adrian did you buy this engine in the U.K if so Ripmax should be involved in helping you sort out they should know by the engine serial number, but if you got it outside U.K I think you best bit is O.S Direct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Smith 1 Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Yes I did buy it in the UK. From Probuild UK as I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Saroli Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Yeah but did Probuild got it from Ripmax ! if so they should have a record of off it and there are responsible for it, there for they need to contact Ripmax on you behalf and sort it out. If you buy a new car from a dealer the dealer is responsible for it in the first year if any thing go wrong mechanically that's the way it is. Any way good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 The buck really should stop with Ripmax. If they felt so inclined they could pass the buck back to OS in japan as they do have the right to return equipment to the manufacturer, but they should at least answer the phone! I would suggest you contact probuild first as they might have more influence, but that means dragging another party into the mix which could just add confusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Saroli Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I agree with you Jon 100%.But Probuild is the supplier and there for responsible or at least get involved. But lets say Probuild got the engine not from Ripmax but somewhere else on line outside U.K then is nothing to do with Ripmax If I want to I can buy a O.S engine from Japan or Honk Kong but if goes wrong I would not expect Ripmax to sort it out (yes I will probably give a shot as a have nothing to lose) but after all I wont take a new car to another dealer to fix it within is warranty just not wright .When I bought my new Hitec radio and the charger went wrong I could not returned to jperkings I hade to return it to my shop and they returned to jperkings they fixed returned to the shop and I got it back from the shop. The shop was out of money from posting back to them and me but that's not my problem, I just put up with the inconvenience things happens and that's the way they work under warranty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I suppose that is the good thing about us dealing direct with the customer, nice direct path back to us. Recently i sent an engine to a chap in Italy and he had a very unusual problem with his carb throttle barrel sticking when the engine was running. I sent him a new carb but asked for the old one back so we could check what happened. so he wasnt out of pocket i told him to remove and keep the main/slow run needle and the throttle arm as spares. Once we got the carb back i was able to see that there was a very slight distortion in the body (from where the stub was pressed on) which tightened up when the carb was at a certain temperature. It didnt show on my test bench because the engine was not in a cowling like in his model. A very unusual problem but i have added another step to my test run procedure to try and catch it should it ever happen again. I reported back to him what i had found and he was very impressed with the whole service. I am not quite sure why as it seemed only decent and logical to me! Edited By Jon Harper - Laser Engines on 22/12/2015 10:09:58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Saroli Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Yes Jon you are absolutely right, because he dealt with you and he paid you, you where the one to sort out and that's is wright and logical, the first stop is always the retailer or manufacture in you case, or who ever takes the money So if it came from Probuild U.K they need to sort out with the supplier of this engine not the customer. We the customer just put up with the inconvenience but we do have our rights after all. Hope he get to the bottom of this as there is something wrong here and is not just the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Smith 1 Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 Well I decided against involving Probuild UK, purely because is introduces another leg to the problem. All they will do I assume is sent it to Ripmax. Assuming Ripmax will deal with me directly I will leave it at that. I have sent a copy of all my communications with Ripmax to Junichi Shimazaki at OS in Japan. His response was he was watching developments very carefully and awaited Peter Halman's report. Can't do anymore really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Guiseppe, you're quite correct in stating the legal position where your contract is with your direct supplier but I agree with Adrian, in that sometimes it's simply more efficient to deal with the importer or manufacturer directly when they are willing to get involved. You can provide information directly and they are able to get straight back to you for any clarification. A less (in my own experience) helpful distributor (out of the 4 that come to mind immediately 2 are in either camp) or manufacturer would mean pursuing the dealer but as he will most probably simply forward the item to Ripmax is there any point insisting on taking the "correct" route? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Where possible i would always try and go to the source but it depends on the thing in question. When i had an issue with my Hangar 9 pulse i contacted horizon directly, but when some paint i got from kings lynn models wasnt much cop i went to them and (to my astonishment) they did a cracking job sorting it out with the manufacturer and i was very impressed with their service. It took over 2 weeks, but new paint had to be mixed and there was something about batch recalls and all sorts, but i was kept in the loop and my 125ml tin (over half used) was replaced by a 500ml tin direct from the mfr. Cant beat that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Posted by Adrian Smith 1 on 22/12/2015 11:30:46: Well I decided against involving Probuild UK, purely because is introduces another leg to the problem. All they will do I assume is sent it to Ripmax. Assuming Ripmax will deal with me directly I will leave it at that. I have sent a copy of all my communications with Ripmax to Junichi Shimazaki at OS in Japan. His response was he was watching developments very carefully and awaited Peter Halman's report. Can't do anymore really. I think you're taking the boring but absolutely the right approach One thing I'd add is a link to this thread to show both Ripmax and OS that potential buyers are watching and hoping for a sympathetic response. It's looking like a reasonable response so far except for your unanswered phone calls to Ripmax at first. No critics are jumping up and down ... yet. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Saroli Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 If Adrian is not going to be out of pocket and that's is what he wants to do that is good enough and probably quicker to get him back flying. Otherwise what's the point of a retailer ! In that case why don't we get our engine direct from the manufacture and cut the middle man out and save money. I am saying this on principle. If I buy a wot 4 I don't think Chris Foss would be interested in dealing with me he will tell me to go and sort it out with ripmax and they to the manufacture of it, And that is exactly what I would do if I was O.S (and then I will remind Ripmax to do there duty)The retailer need to take some responsibility if they want to make a leaving, other wise the grass is green on the outer side and don't blame the cow for going there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren Graham - Cambria Funfighters Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I guess it depends on the setup of the companies involved really, My personal preference is for customers to come direct to me. Typically the more hands each item passes through, the story of the problem gets distorted. If I deal direct with a customer then I know first hand what's going on and given that we are entirely UK based we can provide a very efficient solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Saroli Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Daren I call it Customer Support and that is what Adrian not getting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 If the retailer is an actual local shop, then I'd certainly go there first and talk to the owner/manager. However, that is becoming less and less the case for most of us. A few years ago I had several options of bricks and mortar model shops to visit and I did. Generally I got excellent and knowledgeable service but all those shops have disappeared so I'm left with either mail order, internet or buying at shows. The first two options are often identical and the last doesn't work for regular needs. So I think Adrian's approach is the best that's open to him unless he bought the engine in a face to face purchase, in which case perhaps he might have discussed it with the shop. Even then, the shop may well have advised him to take the approach he has. I was brought up in the retail trade and worked in the family radio/TV shop from a very young age (12/13) serving customers. Ours was a proprietor run business, under capitalised and my father closed it down because good service doesn't trump lower prices. That particularly applied once TVs got to be so reliable customers were no longer worried there's be no-one available to service/repair them like we did - even on Christmas Day! Retail business has changed beyond all recognition in the last 30 years. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I don't understand why you see this as a customer support issue! If I took an obviously faulty widget back to a shop, I'd expect instant replacement or recompense but this is not so straightforward. I'm guessing that it would be just as expensive to send it to the supplier (unless Adrian is very near them) as it would be to send it to Ripmax and all they would do is forward it for assessment as they would not be expected to have the expertise to decide if it was a manufacturing fault. At this time, Ripmax appear to have taken the problem on board. The time for any concern is if they don't see any issue - which would be the same result if the retailer had sent it back. Why involve a 3rd party unless Ripmax decide it's fair wear and tear and Adrian can get independent expert support for his claim? Then by all means take action against the legally responsible supplier... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Saroli Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Customer support is when a retailer support is customer over a issue and help to solved !, If ripmax said to is retailers is ok to post to them direct that's ok saves a lot of time and money , but in my experience with jperking you can not deal direct with them and you need to contact the retailer( I found it strange mind you) so there we have it, different polices. As for Ripmax to take the problem on board is good news and maybe they will go in to fast mode and resolve as quickly as possible so that Adrian get back to is hobby but so far he doing all the donkey work .Why. Any way I am calling in it a day. Happy xmas everybody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Ouch, that's an odd failure - but these things do happen. I hope you get sorted quickly. Time to switch to DLE's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Smith 1 Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 I have good news. Peter Halman's report to OS identified uneven torque in the cylinder head bolts leading to a stress crack in the casing. Presumably at the time of manufacture. OS are sending him the spares for the engine to be repaired and then returned to me when I get back from Oz. So hopefully all's well that ends well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Good news Adrian ..enjoy Oz ...I'm not jealous honest John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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