ChrisB Posted May 2, 2017 Author Share Posted May 2, 2017 Posted by Ian Jones on 02/05/2017 17:13:15: I think the line (if we must have one) is being drawn in the wrong place. The dividing line as I see it is between: those that just fly with little or no desire to know why the aeroplane flys and having managed to either crash out or reach a level where the thrill has gone, they just disappear those that have an interest in why the aeroplane flys, how it looks in the air, how they can fly it like a real aeroplane. The desire to know these things and enjoy them will always be there for these people. Beyond that there's many layers of flyer/modeller ranging from those that don't build at all right through to those that scratch build with every rivet precisely right. Ian, you've hit the nail on the head and sum up the hobby perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Posted by ChrisB on 02/05/2017 23:22:53: Posted by Ian Jones on 02/05/2017 17:13:15: those that just fly with little or no desire to know why the aeroplane flys and having managed to either crash out or reach a level where the thrill has gone, they just disappear those that have an interest in why the aeroplane flys, how it looks in the air, how they can fly it like a real aeroplane. The desire to know these things and enjoy them will always be there for these people. Beyond that there's many layers of flyer/modeller ranging from those that don't build at all right through to those that scratch build with every rivet precisely right. Personally, I wouldn't classify the first group above as either aeromodellers or model flyers. That doesn't mean I disrespect them: why shouldn't people be able to try something with no commitment? I went skiing once, years ago, and am likely not to do it again. I don't class myself as any class of skier! Remember also, that people have more time for building/committing at different points in their lives. Between being a teenager/student/young adult, I was an aeromodeller. Now, with kids, house and job, I'm lucky if I can grab half an hour a month in the summer to go flying after the little one is in bed. So I'm probably a model flyer at the moment. Perhaps when the kids go to school, I will be accepted back into the aeromodelling community again!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_B Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 In answer to the original question I would suggest that there is only one category, we are simply 'model plane' flyers. To my mind the term 'aeromodeller' means someone who models anything aero related (including helicopters, jets, gliders, autogyros etc.), including static display plastic kits, hand carved display model aircraft et al. We should simply be happy that we're privileged enough to be able to indulge in this joyous hobby which ever way we choose, and have fun with our toys until it's time to switch off the transmitter for the very last time, at which point it really doesn't matter what we were called. Morbid? Maybe, but that's the reality of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 I'm with Bill_B. Happy days while they're here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 may be time for a comp--to find a new 2017 name for us all... model aircraft technicians? ken Anderson...ne...1..... new name dept.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Harris Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Does it really matter how we are categorised? In my eyes we are all into minature flying machines in some form or another, as long as we enjoy what ever we do then that is what counts surely? Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZ e flyer Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 As a child I was bought a control line biplane, plastic with an IC motor. Major disappointment. I watched it fly once, the operator struggled to keep it in the air, I had no hope. That was in the 70's. I lost interest and that was that. Too hard. 2 years ago a work colleague mentioned he flew RC planes. He piqued my interest. I did some research. Nek minnit, I own a RTF apprentice and a simulator. Flew it, loved it, crashed it spectacularly, repaired/rebuilt it, still flying it, love it. Could I have built and flown something like that as a complete novice? I really doubt it but, I was hooked and I have since purchased another ARTF glider, built a small free flight balsa kit biplane and just completed my first free plan build (Sleeker). What am I?? Well I guess now I am an aeromodeller but I really see myself as a flyer who likes to build as well. I have since introduced another work colleague to the hobby. My point is, don't underestimate the casual flyer, once the flying bug bites properly they will be hooked too and if it were not for the availability of modern RTF models, many would drift away. I think They are the gateway and future of the hobby and should be welcomed in all their variations, you never know what skill sets they might bring to your club TP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eflightray Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Posted by Richard Harris on 03/05/2017 12:40:11: Does it really matter how we are categorised? In my eyes we are all into minature flying machines in some form or another, as long as we enjoy what ever we do then that is what counts surely? Rich It appears to matter to a few who perhaps still remember when they did it the 'hard way'. Many wives/girlfriends will still look at the hobby as, 'playing with his toy planes'. Many potential model fliers have probably been put off the lack of flying sites, clubs, and coming across 'older fliers', (who can appear aloof and looking down on beginners), the 'fees', (you must have insurance and belong to the BMFA or you can't fly here, and the club fees are .... ), ARF/RTF are still frowned on, (though many wont admit it, your not a modeler unless you have the scars from building), etc etc etc. Does it matter what we are called ?, not really, except for nostalgia sake. We have probably done most to help extinguish the hobby, by doing nothing, (myself included), but then do I really want loads of runny nosed kids asking stupid questions and pestering me while I fly ....... ? We have moved into a technologically advanced world, where youngsters don't see the point of 'making things'. Just like many of use have moved on from opening the car bonnet setting the spark plug gaps and points, adjusting the carburetor, tinkering in general. Now we just wash the car and let a garage do the rest. That old saying -- "Nostalgia isn't what it used to be". Ray. Edited By eflightray on 03/05/2017 14:20:44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 "We have moved into a technologically advanced world, where youngsters don't see the point of 'making things'" Oh I don't know. CAD. Laser cutting. 3d printing. The tools are different but people still love making things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 If you have put together a CAD model, have you made something? Discuss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eflightray Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Posted by Nigel R on 03/05/2017 14:35:26: "We have moved into a technologically advanced world, where youngsters don't see the point of 'making things'" Oh I don't know. CAD. Laser cutting. 3d printing. The tools are different but people still love making things. So there are hundreds of modelers now using CAD, laser cutters, and 3D printers ?, then we have no problems. Call the hobby, 'Computer Modelling'. Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan M Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 CAD is just a design tool, the CNC or laser machine is the tool that does the actual cutting. To answer the question: laser-cut ribs and formers, for example, take the sweat out of cutting your own (having first marking them out if making from a plan), but the model still needs to be made. So, if there is a distinction, it is only between an ARTF where all major components are completely manufactured and the user just glues or screws the odd thing on, and anything that comes as balsa (or other material) sheets, stock, etc, and then needs to be constructed, covered, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extra slim Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Lots of interesting points, to me, our hobby is one which we enjoy, but does carry a degree of risk to those in the vicinity, therefore anyone who commits models into the air has the responsibility of making sure they have done all that is necessary to mitigate risks. I have seen scratch built models with dubious setups and fittings, suspect CG, throws etc, I have seen PnP models where owners havent checked anything on them.. but I have seen visa versa..I dont care whether you have built or bought it.. I only care about whether you can check it and maintain it, to prevent accidents. I think the OP is airing on the side that flyers dont have the knowledge to safely maintain but modellers do perhaps.. I can kind of see that and wouldnt argue against, but by all means isnt a hard and fast rule IMO.. let us all enjoy the hobby, ....but safely.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Ray, what can we say, times change. Economic conditions vary. Different things become viable, things that once were viable cease to be. We are all just passengers on this ride in so many ways. "The hobby" will always change as time goes on. Eventually it will all but cease to exist. Enjoy it for what it is, while it is still here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eflightray Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Posted by Nigel R on 03/05/2017 17:49:27: Ray, what can we say, times change. Economic conditions vary. Different things become viable, things that once were viable cease to be. We are all just passengers on this ride in so many ways. "The hobby" will always change as time goes on. Eventually it will all but cease to exist. Enjoy it for what it is, while it is still here. That's what I do. I scratch build and fly. Flying has reduced owing to the weather these days, it seems to be much more windy these days. I even considered selling everything, so bought an ARF to cut through the wind better, ( Max Thrust Lightning), fun, but I still prefer my 'biggies'. The hobby will continue as long as we do, if we can all get along. The next generation of fliers may do it differently, so hopefully no more " when I was a lad ..... " (government or councils permitting). extra slim, look on Youtube at some of the model crash compilations, a lot of the crashes are by seemingly quite experienced fliers. It's not just some scratch builders or beginners with RTF/ARF that can be a 'risk'. Another reason i no longer fly with a club. Some clubs just shouldn't allow video cameras on site, they can give us a poor reputation. Here's hoping for a better, calmer year with plenty of flying, (otherwise it will be a big advert Ray. Edited By eflightray on 03/05/2017 19:08:34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daithi O Buitigh Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Posted by Jonathan M on 03/05/2017 15:38:42: CAD is just a design tool, the CNC or laser machine is the tool that does the actual cutting. To answer the question: laser-cut ribs and formers, for example, take the sweat out of cutting your own (having first marking them out if making from a plan), but the model still needs to be made. So, if there is a distinction, it is only between an ARTF where all major components are completely manufactured and the user just glues or screws the odd thing on, and anything that comes as balsa (or other material) sheets, stock, etc, and then needs to be constructed, covered, etc. Really CNC cutting is just an improvement on the die-crunched sheets of balsa from years back - not really 'new' (just a better technique) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Dorricott 1 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 This builders versus users isn't confined to this hobby , amateur radio has the same problems cheap radios from China and a 3 tier licence the lowest of which I think a 5 year old could pass with a little coaching. Yes I am a dinosaur when I passed the exam in the 70s you had to do a Morse test to get all the bands and now they basically get them anyway with restrictions . The old way was listening for years then going for the exam to be able to transmit , now it seems the newer generation get the lot straight away and don't work for it and certainly do not build anything they could use on air akin to our flyers only . As an aside I am a newbie beginner and have Apprentice to take instruction on but am building "The Answer" featured in the mag recently and I couldn't just turn up and only fly because I would be missing the best part of the hobby . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 welcome from a fellow dinosaur Brian...enjoy. ken Anderson...ne....1..... Jurassic dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daithi O Buitigh Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 I agree Brian - I sat the RAE way back and do get a shade annoyed when I consider that they handed out full access to all bands (the old 'novice' license did restrict their band usage). Alright, I never did get round to passing the Morse test but I did hang on to my GI7OMY callsign when the rules changed (still doesn't make me like the new setup). Just for fun though (and something all those M3/M6 and 2E callsigns don't realise) - those licenses are invalid outside the UK (they aren't CEPT). I can operate as EI/GI7OMY with no problems (well with the local border it's needed) but I have been informed (unofficially) that anyone with one of those bits of paper are not to be replied to on air in EI land (they don't have reciprocal privileges) Aside from that, I'm definitely a dinosaur in the modelling and electronics game, having been building since the late '50s and being trained in maintenance on the Early Warning radar systems in the early 60s (that's the Type 80 search head at RAF Trimingham n my av). I'm that much a dinosaur that I can recall Keil Kraft Junior Scale kits for the princely sum of half a crown (12 1/2 pence in newby language) Oh and on that subject. KK kits were never die crunched - they were always printed on sheet balsa and you had to cut them with a razor blade (I couldn't afford a proper modelling knife back then but, as we had a shop, I could get my hands on single and double edged razor blades ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 9 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 I guess the old adage is still true. The value of anything is measured by the number of hoops you have to jump through to get it. Get something to easy and you will not treasure it in any meaningful way Edited By Phil 9 on 05/05/2017 10:57:38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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