Aeromodellers or model flyers?

[Dwain Dibley.]

I agree with the above post whole heartedly, but it's the "Why should We give a monkey's" attitude

that baffles me Guys ???.

What's that all about then ??

With respect

D.D.

[ChrisB]

not TreatPosted by PatMc on 30/04/2017 20:41:25:

Posted by ChrisB on 30/04/2017 15:49:29:
I think it does matter for several reasons.
Time and effort of instructors and other club members in investing time and effort helping newbies who last 12 months.
Long term future of the hobby.
Safety
And
Retention of members for clubs.

If instructors & other club members want to help newbies that's their choice.

Why does the long term future of the hobby really matter - after all it's only a hobby. The only product is the enjoyment of the participants (& possibly spectators) gain.

Safety - you've lost me there. I don't see how safety is compromised.

The members are the club - fewer members = smaller or fewer clubs. So what ?

Edited By PatMc on 30/04/2017 20:48:19

Fewer clubs and fewer members makes us even more of a minority, even less reason to warrant investment and tolerated even less by wider society. The hobby has been in existence for decades and many people have and continue to invest time money and energy in it. Yes it's just a hobby but many hundreds of us have invested time, money and effort in developing our hobby. In 25 years I've built/assembled and bought/sold 50-60 aircraft, built a dedicated workshop, bought machinery and have selected specific cars/vans in order to transport models. I agree each to their own, but that's my view. It's not a pastime to me it's a hobby. You only have to go to the various shows across the country to see that, particularly at LMA events.

Safety: many newbies, particularly those who fly foamies have no understanding of the various dangers that present themselves if not managed correctly:

• Mishandling lipos, be it charging in the car or being careless with them.
• Treating the quiet, little, live prop like it's a bean bag and not heeding warnings
• Not checking control throws, c of g etc etc etc
• Flying in inappropriate locations

It is our choice to help others but that's because we care about our clubs and the hobby that we enjoy. If we don't help others and they don't take established and experienced advice then accidents occur, that causes issues for clubs, individuals and gives the hobby a bad name, and we lose members because they think it's bad and dangerous etc etc.

I can only assume you are a hobbyist, not in a club Patmc

CB

[PatMc]

Posted by Martin Harris on 30/04/2017 20:58:00:

I fully accept that we all get different things from our involvement, hopefully you'll continue to enjoy whatever you get out of the hobby.

I'm sure I will.

I too enjoy passing on my knowledge & long experience to others but I don't see myself as a missionary for aeromodelling. If someone wants to take up the hobby I'm happy to encourage them in whatever way I can. If they decide to stay for the duration or to drop out after a short time I'm perfectly relaxed with their choice.

[ChrisB]

Posted by PatMc on 30/04/2017 21:35:43:

Posted by Martin Harris on 30/04/2017 20:58:00:

I fully accept that we all get different things from our involvement, hopefully you'll continue to enjoy whatever you get out of the hobby.

I'm sure I will.

I too enjoy passing on my knowledge & long experience to others but I don't see myself as a missionary for aeromodelling. If someone wants to take up the hobby I'm happy to encourage them in whatever way I can. If they decide to stay for the duration or to drop out after a short time I'm perfectly relaxed with their choice.

Nor do I see myself as a missionary for aeromodelling and if people leave the hobby then that's up to them but to have the 'who cares' approach seems a little naive.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[ChrisB]

Posted by Tim Hooper on 30/04/2017 21:17:47:

Posted by Trevor on 30/04/2017 16:08:23:

The question is, if ARTFs had never happened, would the hobby be in a healthier state now than it is? Impossible to know, but personally I very much doubt it.

Trevor

Personally, I feel that if the ARTF/instant gratification revolution hadn't happened then there'd be no hobby at all. No hardware, no suppliers, no clubs.

I have no problems with the ARTF side of the hobby - it makes it possible for those of us who 'build' to carry on.

Tim

Completely agree. I like ARTF and kits/plans. My original point was more about the attitude of individuals and the way many seem to want to just fly the models, without choosing to research and learn about the hobby, the terms the newonces of the hobby.

As an example. A couple of years ago we had a member who flew gliders for several years. Hi wanted to start flying IC models. He obtained all the gear and I advised him of what he needed to do and that I'd help him. Without notice he arrived at the field and immediately said....I cant stop long, can we fly my plane? No starter battery, a glow stick that hadn't been charged for 2years and didn't know what the charger was. A fuel pump that hadn't been plumbed etc etc. I went over everything with him several times a few weeks before by email and face to face. He kept looking at his watch and eventually after the engine throwing the prop twice I said that it would be best if we tried again another day. I advised him of the ways to rectify the issues and at renewal he said he was taking a break as he couldn't invest the time.

I think many people expect to learn to fly in 3 flights and not have to put any effort in to it, a bit like watch TV. It's just my observation over the last 10 years or so.

Cheers

CB

[PatMc]

Posted by ChrisB on 30/04/2017 21:35:05:

not TreatPosted by PatMc on 30/04/2017 20:41:25:

Posted by ChrisB on 30/04/2017 15:49:29:
I think it does matter for several reasons.
Time and effort of instructors and other club members in investing time and effort helping newbies who last 12 months.
Long term future of the hobby.
Safety
And
Retention of members for clubs.

If instructors & other club members want to help newbies that's their choice.

Why does the long term future of the hobby really matter - after all it's only a hobby. The only product is the enjoyment of the participants (& possibly spectators) gain.

Safety - you've lost me there. I don't see how safety is compromised.

The members are the club - fewer members = smaller or fewer clubs. So what ?

Edited By PatMc on 30/04/2017 20:48:19

Fewer clubs and fewer members makes us even more of a minority, even less reason to warrant investment and tolerated even less by wider society. The hobby has been in existence for decades and many people have and continue to invest time money and energy in it. Yes it's just a hobby but many hundreds of us have invested time, money and effort in developing our hobby. In 25 years I've built/assembled and bought/sold 50-60 aircraft, built a dedicated workshop, bought machinery and have selected specific cars/vans in order to transport models. I agree each to their own, but that's my view. It's not a pastime to me it's a hobby. You only have to go to the various shows across the country to see that, particularly at LMA events.

Safety: many newbies, particularly those who fly foamies have no understanding of the various dangers that present themselves if not managed correctly:

• Mishandling lipos, be it charging in the car or being careless with them.
• Treating the quiet, little, live prop like it's a bean bag and not heeding warnings
• Not checking control throws, c of g etc etc etc
• Flying in inappropriate locations

It is our choice to help others but that's because we care about our clubs and the hobby that we enjoy. If we don't help others and they don't take established and experienced advice then accidents occur, that causes issues for clubs, individuals and gives the hobby a bad name, and we lose members because they think it's bad and dangerous etc etc.

I can only assume you are a hobbyist, not in a club Patmc

CB

Sorry ChrisB but I consider your post to be little more than nonsense that's full of pompous assumptions.

BTW, I've been an active aeromodeller/model flyer in my chosen hobby/pastime for well over 60 years. Currently I'm a member of two model flying clubs. In fact I'm a founder member of one that's been in existence since 1970 & have been a member of the other for about 25 years.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Daithi O Buitigh]

As I pointed out in another thread, the Society of Model Aeronautical Engineers transmuted into the British Model Flying Association.

That should answer the question I suppose

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Denis Watkins]

Every club Chris has the same mix of individuals, and I get what you are saying, and had exactly the same experiences, year after year, as one leaves, another takes their place. Just the same briefing as yours is given out across the nation and duly ignored. It is not personal Chris either, it is the nature of clubs, some give a lot and gain a lot more, and some do not.

[PatMc]

Posted by Daithi O Buitigh on 30/04/2017 22:12:45:

As I pointed out in another thread, the Society of Model Aeronautical Engineers transmuted into the British Model Flying Association.

That should answer the question I suppose

Yes, our national society dropped the inaccurate grandiloquent title for a more honest if mundane name.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[David Davis]

Posted by Jonathan M on 30/04/2017 20:31:03:

Posted by David Davis on 30/04/2017 19:51:53:

I bought an as-new WOT 4 Classic kit off eBay for £60 just recently.

I was the only bidder.

You were had!

Steve Webb will charge you £100 for one.

**LINK**

[Jonathan M]

Posted by David Davis on 01/05/2017 07:07:04:

Posted by Jonathan M on 30/04/2017 20:31:03:

Posted by David Davis on 30/04/2017 19:51:53:

I bought an as-new WOT 4 Classic kit off eBay for £60 just recently.

I was the only bidder.

You were had!

Steve Webb will charge you £100 for one.

**LINK**

... and then you have to actually build it!?

[Chris Walby]

Andrew Ray " my interest" has made a valid point.

This hobby/sport is going the same way as the dinosaurs, why because it does not interest youngsters, mostly because no one introduces aeronautics to them.....If there is no investment by people there will be no return.

I appreciate there are some that help out youth groups and it seems there are many obstacles, but there are opportunities. Youth groups (Scouting is just one of them) that have a (Aero) badge, leaders would really appreciate someone coming along and talking/doing a session. The BMFA have a selection of models for various skill/age groups.

Yesterday I helped a Scout group for 8+ hours and each scout had a 20 minute flight the a motor glider and there was not one that was not excided (some overly so!) about the hole day talking and doing aeronautical activities. I could do much more, but my point is if you want the hobby to continue or you wish to pass on some of the immense knowledge gathered over the years then there an opportunity...

Last person to leave....don't forget to turn your TX off

[David Davis]

Posted by Jonathan M on 01/05/2017 07:30:33:

Posted by David Davis on 01/05/2017 07:07:04:

Posted by Jonathan M on 30/04/2017 20:31:03:

Posted by David Davis on 30/04/2017 19:51:53:

I bought an as-new WOT 4 Classic kit off eBay for £60 just recently.

I was the only bidder.

You were had!

Steve Webb will charge you £100 for one.

**LINK**

... and then you have to actually build it!?

I look forward to it.

[Jonathan M]

Touché David

I'm itching to make a start on my Gangster AND my Middle Phase, but I've got a rule about finishing what I'm already working on... an 18" balsa and tissue Spitfire which I hope to get down to 40g including rubber!

[David Davis]

I have flown a number of WOT 4s ranging from the WOT 4 Foam-E, through Classic and Mark 3 kit built versions, the WOT 4 ARTF and the WOT 4 XL ARTF. I have been described as a "traditional modeller" because I still enjoy building models but like many of traditional modellers, I fly the odd ARTF too. To my eternal shame,it was the standard sized WOT 4 ARTF which gave me most pleasure powered by an Irvine 53.

I suspect that the lighter built-up wing had something to do with it. .

[Keith Lomax]

Posted by PatMc on 30/04/2017 22:34:32:

Posted by Daithi O Buitigh on 30/04/2017 22:12:45:

As I pointed out in another thread, the Society of Model Aeronautical Engineers transmuted into the British Model Flying Association.

That should answer the question I suppose

Yes, our national society dropped the inaccurate grandiloquent title for a more honest if mundane name.

I don't have a particular axe to grind as I got involved in SMAE/BMFA activities at around the time of the change, after the decision had been made.

We are still the Society of Model Aeronautical Engineers Ltd. The AGM is the SMAE AGM. However, we are now SMAE Ltd. trading as British Model Flying Association.

My preference is to assemble a kit, and I have built from plan. However, I would not consider that Aeronautical Engineering. Those of us who are clever enough, and have the time to design and build their own model are worthy of that mantle. Therefore the latter name is appropriate to me, and I suspect a high majority of our members.

Also, it was felt that the name change was a key part of gaining recognition of model fling as a sport.

[Ian Jones]

I think the line (if we must have one) is being drawn in the wrong place. The dividing line as I see it is between:

• those that just fly with little or no desire to know why the aeroplane flys and having managed to either crash out or reach a level where the thrill has gone, they just disappear
• those that have an interest in why the aeroplane flys, how it looks in the air, how they can fly it like a real aeroplane. The desire to know these things and enjoy them will always be there for these people. Beyond that there's many layers of flyer/modeller ranging from those that don't build at all right through to those that scratch build with every rivet precisely right.

I definitely do not belong in the first group but within the 2nd group I cannot be defined because I have bought ready to fly, ARTFs, kits and plan builds and I will continue with whatever build level meets my fancy at the time. I see no need to limit myself with any preference.

When I take my RTF foamy vampire to the field am I just a casual flyer or am I still an aeromodeller? My point is, that it's not a matter of how the model was built and who by; it is the interest that the model flyers/aeromodellers have that will determine the future of model flying/aeromodelling and model flying clubs.

Edited By Ian Jones on 02/05/2017 17:15:18

Edited By Ian Jones on 02/05/2017 17:16:25

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

If you're an aeromodeller you're still one whatever you're flying - you're just not exercising that part of your skillset.

[Phil 9]

I am trying to build a model from plans at the moment. I am enjoying the build but I cant help but notice how expensive it is. when you start buying the small items like control horns glue a wing joining kit a tail wheel things start to mount up quickly. covering film and balsa also seem expensive when bought in small quantities. it sort of shows that some of the artf kits do offer value for money as well as being a big time saver. so you cant really knock someone for taking that route

Edited By Phil 9 on 02/05/2017 22:46:49

[Daithi O Buitigh]

Phil, way back we made horns from scrap plywood - scrap pieces of fibreglass PCB work equally well. You just glue them in place. I've never known a control horn on a control line model to come out, no matter how violnt the manouevre (even one that landed nose first up to the wing roots on the ground, but that was some idiot who shall remain nameless forgetting that, when inverted, 'up' is 'down' )

[Peter Jenkins]

Posted by Daithi O Buitigh on 02/05/2017 22:50:50:

(even one that landed nose first up to the wing roots on the ground, but that was some idiot who shall remain nameless forgetting that, when inverted, 'up' is 'down' )

Been there - done that