Piers Bowlan Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 I agree Percy, for cars it's a non-starter and hardly safe for 'joe public' to get involved with. The concept has also been moth balled as a fuel for aircraft too, partly on cost grounds. The point I was trying to make that was/is that more runway capacity is needed at Heathrow whatever the aircraft fuel they run on. Aircraft, like cars will get more environmentally friendly as new engine technologies emerge (GTF, hybrid engines for instance). The rise in emissions from aircraft is not as inevitable as some of the doom mongers have predicted. One of the greatest reductions in pollution will be achieved by aircraft not having to fly around in the holding stacks waiting their turn to land, due to lack of runway capacity at LHR. Build more runways = less aircraft emissions. Counter intuitive for some. Perhaps something can be done about the pollution produced by ships. What is wrong with sails? Edited By Piers Bowlan on 02/07/2018 07:29:26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Posted by Don Fry on 02/07/2018 06:53:40: Trouble is Piers, is not the aircraft but all the ground movements associated with the extra aircraft. That area of London already breaks air pollution regulations. That means it kills people. Let them drive EVs (With apologies to M. Antoinette) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Perhaps what is of interest, is that the electric powered aircraft as recently built/modified by Airbus, use an electric drive to a wheel for taxing. The reasoning being is that taxing particularly with jet type aircraft consume very large quantities of energy/fuel. Also true apparently for the fan type drives being preferentially used, over props. From what has been written, by different people (although I suspect it is an airbus/Siemans placement via journalists) that electric aircraft will become (on reflection what is the issue now is not discussed) more efficient on regional journeys at about 250 miles range, than jets. Present electric cars are as about as practical as the Benz Dog Cart, when then compared to a horse and carriage. Many of the present owners of electric cars exhibit the spirit of Berta Benz (Bertha Ringer), in that the cars do what they want, even though compared with existing transport, not without challenges. When environmentalists talk about rising sea levels, for some region they focus on ic cars. Yet when even the broad brush charts are examined, it becomes apparent, personal transport is a very small part. Transport as described by governmental sources is 28%, which is identical to electricity. Yet transport apparently includes, buses (a large emitter according to some sources, vehicle agr dependent), Rail (passenger & Freight), Airtransport, and shipping. Electric cars and other vehicles will almost certainly become the norm, although electricity will then become the fly in the ointment Edited By Erfolg on 02/07/2018 13:53:44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Posted by Martin Harris on 02/07/2018 13:35:20: Posted by Don Fry on 02/07/2018 06:53:40: Trouble is Piers, is not the aircraft but all the ground movements associated with the extra aircraft. That area of London already breaks air pollution regulations. That means it kills people. Let them drive EVs (With apologies to M. Antoinette) Fair enough, you shift the pollution from the tail pipe of the EV, to the power station, out of the city where the important people live. But their pollution foot print is IRO a quarter greater. And if M Antoinette had had an IC car, she would have made it back to Austria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDD15 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 An important point to bear in mind with any electric vehicles is that as the grid becomes "greener" so does the EV. So in UK with our move away from coal our collective CO2 emissions are now down below the levels of 1890. Still a bit to go yet though to meet our Kyoto targets.... In the meantime we have quite a significant cost to pay for cleaning up our North Sea hydrocarbon addiction. idd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Posted by Don Fry on 02/07/2018 15:46:37: Posted by Martin Harris on 02/07/2018 13:35:20: Posted by Don Fry on 02/07/2018 06:53:40: Trouble is Piers, is not the aircraft but all the ground movements associated with the extra aircraft. That area of London already breaks air pollution regulations. That means it kills people. Let them drive EVs (With apologies to M. Antoinette) Fair enough, you shift the pollution from the tail pipe of the EV, to the power station, out of the city where the important people live. But their pollution foot print is IRO a quarter greater. And if M Antoinette had had an IC car, she would have made it back to Austria. You won't hear any argument from me with the present technologies although figures and statistics can normally be produced to support or disprove almost any contentious point. In that vein, I'd like to discuss the effects that reducing carbon dioxide emissions has had though. It seems there is now a CO2 shortage throughout Europe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eflightray Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Nissan Leaf ? But what happens to them when Autumn comes. P.S. 56+ mpg since getting my Ionic (4000 miles), could do considerably better. Too much fun. . Edited By eflightray on 02/07/2018 20:36:57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 IDD15 There is a fundamental problem with many think tanks, they are often a political body. What ever they report on, comes with there particular slant. In this case they conveniently forget in much of their discussion, that the operators are required to pay and organise decommissioning. From the piece, it is apparent that one of their favoured scenarios is to leave the oil where it is. Watching CNN in the USA, a favorite of the BBC and writer to the Guardian was described as a committed Communist, where here she is presented as being in the centre of politics. All of which tells me not everything is as unbiased as it is presented and that one persons view of political leanings is very different to anothers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Posted by IDD15 on 02/07/2018 19:46:48: An important point to bear in mind with any electric vehicles is that as the grid becomes "greener" so does the EV. So in UK with our move away from coal our collective CO2 emissions are now down below the levels of 1890. Still a bit to go yet though to meet our Kyoto targets.... In the meantime we have quite a significant cost to pay for cleaning up our North Sea hydrocarbon addiction. idd For balance, also study the consequences of battery production, and disposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Beat get the 2 stroke hack out, for balance, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDD15 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Ooooh watch out the robots are coming! idd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDD15 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Posted by Percy Verance on 05/07/2018 22:13:05: Looks novel. Ideal commuter transport for those whom aren't sure whether they're coming or going. A fleet of those operated by Northern Rail perhaps? In which case there wouldn't be much going...... But they do have AI so are probably a bit brighter than the muppets running Northern Rail!!! idd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 I personally would be alarmed to see those buses on a typical UK road. Recent discussions on the effectiveness of self drive systems in both the UK and elsewhere have highlighted a number of issues, that have not been adequately resolved. One being mini roundabouts, the ambiguity of who has precedence is at present beyond self contained control systems. A solution at present requires communication between vehicles and a resolution protocol. Another issue has been the variable status of kerbs, road edges. The Sat Nav type data can provide the general location, not the detail of the locality. One issue that surprises me is that of puddles etc. where there is a difficulty in interpreting what is hazard and its relevance. The often quoted accident, involving a truck with a self drive bus is interesting. The truck driver was given a statutory fine. What is seldom reported, is apparently the truck had entered the carriageway with the bus approaching at some distance. What the bus apparently did not register was that it needed to stop, initially. I guess the computer should have been charged for driving without due care and attention? I hope it will be some time before self drive vehicles are on the UK roads in numbers. I have read that some pressure groups want to see this type of bus on the road, operated in conjunction with a secondary traffic control system operated by Local Authorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Sorry Percy, gets a list, Nissan finishing with the Pulsar, whatever that is, top of the list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levanter Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Electric cars will be a great hit in Spain and Italy then! Levanter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 If they do, I'd love to know how people in cities and towns are supposed to charge their vehicles - topic done to death, we'll find out soon enough. Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 12/10/2018 12:27:39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Indeed it has. Lots of maybe and possibly in that statement Percy! Either way it is publicity for Jaguar. and we all know there is no such thing as bad publicity. Even if they later revise their view and go with hybrid setups. Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 12/10/2018 12:30:04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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