Electric Cars.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Agnos, sounds Greek, I've not traveled much.

[Bob Cotsford]

True John. I'll have to add an 'onopolis' to my surname from now on!

David, as you say the miniscule death rate from guns and roadkill are a help but don't go near far enough. A full on World War followed by a plague or two should get us into the right sort of area. Incidentally, what was the birth rate for the period covered by your stats?

Back on topic, I would have loved an electric car next, or failing that a decent sized hybrid. Unfortunately the only hybrid actually available through Motability was an Outlander - when I saw one in the flesh I was shocked just how big it was! I know Motability list other hybrids but the reality is that they were not available through the dealers. What chance have we got when even charities such as Motability are biased towards liquid fueled vehicles?

[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

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[Bob Cotsford]

Don't think we'd accomplish much by installing a hydro plant in the Lickey Hills! I was lucky enough to work in Norway for a while in the 70's, and even the small island where we were based had a hydro plant which must have served the Stord dockyard and the town. Of course that was long before electric cars and ferries!

[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

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[eflightray]

The strong incentives to promote electric vehicles in the UK is probably down to who thinks they will get a better profit margin from selling the idea, vehicles, and infrastructure..

But there could be a big after market sale boost for electric cars. The sound generators.

Who wouldn't buy a Nissan Leaf if the sound coming from it was that of a Ferrari, V8 Cobra, even dare I say a V12 Merlin

The South Wales tidal lagoon electricity generation idea seems to have 'sunk'. Another multi-billion 'free electricity' scheme. Free if you ignore the cost, not only in money, but also the environment, .. thousands of tons of rock requiring delivery from Cornwall.

Must admit to really enjoying my Hyundai Ionic hybrid, loads of room for planes. It just needs pedestrians in car parks to think about quiet cars behind them, and look.

Oh for that Merlin sound generator

Ray.

[Erfolg]

Percy

You have identified a major issue, there is not plenty of electricity for 300, 000 new houses.

There probably is an issue with respect to pollution, although the electric vehicle is also part of the issue. Others have pointed out that there are many down and up stream issues with respect to electric vehicles.

I do believe the tongue in cheek, population issue as presented, is actually a very real issue, that many do not want to address, particularly at the world level. Domestically, it is not just us old ones that cause major problems to the NHS, Schooling, water supplies and so on, it is the +20% of immigrants since the 1960s that put pressure on everything, although the scale of the figures should be focussing minds. Those who say that more young people will only replicate the present issues at a greater scale at a later date, have major point.

Electric cars will come, it is a when, there will be a cost, measured in many ways, although I do not expect there to be any real energy saving or reduction in overall pollution, or it being any cheaper to the motorist, just a different set of resources becoming scarce, as all are finite, in reality.

[Former Member]

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[Don Fry]

Best you get one this year then Percy, regulations come in next year making in a necessity to produce noise at low speed. I can see the point, as you get to see more electric cars, what strikes me is how quick they pick up speed from a halt. Loads of low speed torque I assume, if you don't mind using the amps.

Small point, when did the law change. You hit a pedestrian, your insurance company covers the NHS costs. Or it always used to. So filling up casualty departments is expensive for the hitter, without even taking a sighting of a moral compass

[J D 8]

Animals/ pets also need cars to make some noise before setting off.

[Don Fry]

Don't you insult my SWMBO

[IDD15]

Well its been roughly 24 hrs since I posed the question and so far the answers we have got are;

1) Leave the planet

2) A cull of homo sapiens

3) Homo sapiens die out as per ancient races

4) Change our socio-economic system

best of all and not forgetting

5) Electric car drivers are following a pseudo religion!!!

Good luck selling that little lot to the electorate!

Forgive me but I think I just might take my chances/finances with the many people and organisations getting on and actually working the various problems....

Idd

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by IDD15 on 19/06/2018 21:55:29:

Well its been roughly 24 hrs since I posed the question and so far the answers we have got are;

1) Leave the planet

2) A cull of homo sapiens

3) Homo sapiens die out as per ancient races

4) Change our socio-economic system

best of all and not forgetting

5) Electric car drivers are following a pseudo religion!!!

Good luck selling that little lot to the electorate!

Forgive me but I think I just might take my chances/finances with the many people and organisations getting on and actually working the various problems....

Idd

The electorate will buy anything, look at Westminster and see what we elect. (of all parties)

[Former Member]

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[J D 8]

Scheme to produce clean energy for a hundred years and more at Swansea bay rejected as not being value for money.

Scheme to build another runway at Heathrow and put many more fossil fuel burning aircraft in the sky for many more billions passed.

I live on the Welsh coast and only a mile away is the VOR location beacon for the air corridor used by aircraft departing to the Americas.

Yesterday the forecast was for wall to wall blue sky's overhead but here the sun's rays were dimmed by the mass of slow to disperse con trails.

[cymaz]

Oops Nissan

[Former Member]

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[IDD15]

Yes, how not to win friends, but the reality is a little bit different than the Beeb report makes out.

The mileage figures given for the NEDC tests are almost pure fantasy (bit like when you buy a VW diesel for low nox emissions), the newer WLTP tests would appear to be a lot more realistic. Given I'm getting 4.2 miles per Kwh on my gen 1 Leaf I'd expect something like 160 miles on the gen 2 given its a bit heavier.

#Rapidgate has been a course of discussion on ev forums for quite some time now. I'm not sure its a big problem for those who plan a little bit ahead when doing a long trip. Slow charge overnight before long trip to 100% (cells will be cool) and first leg of journey would get you 130 miles to 20%. Fast charge for leg 2 would probably get you another 130 miles. Second fast charge for leg 3 would give you another 100 plus miles so I would have thought 360 miles was doable. Basically if you want to do really long trips you still have to buy a Tesla.

However, I think this more a question of how its been presented to customers. Finding out after you've bought the car and read the handbook, not good Nissan.....

If Mr Pitcairn wishes to sell his new Leaf I don't think he'll have any problem given the current waiting lists.

idd

[IDD15]

In better news, possibly 1200 new charging locations.

idd

[Piers Bowlan]

When I was a kid, back in the sixties, there was the proposed Severn Barrage scheme, It has had several different incarnations but successive inquiries and reports over the decades concluded that it was too expensive, and more recently, that the environmental impact was too great. Try telling that to the Polynesian villagers about to lose their islands to the sea, through global warming. The problem is that there has never been the political will for these long term major infrastructure projects in this country. I think it is a cultural thing, as other nations are capable of taking the long view. The Japanese, for instance, have had their 'bullet trains' for decades but how long has HS2 taken to come to fruition, and we are not there yet! Will it get cancelled?

In my youth, there was much talk of the proposed Foulness Airport to replace LHR. In fact there have been five proposed new Thames Estuary airport schemes since the 1940s. The outcome was always the same; it was too expensive. Certainly, compared to the proposed 'Boris Island' airport, HS2 requires pocket money in comparison!

The third runway at LHR? It is a national disgrace that so much public money has been wasted and so much political prevarication taken place over the years, to make a decision that did not require a decision - it is a necessity. Future aircraft with their geared turbo-fans will burn less fuel/produce less emissions. They will certainly produce significantly less noise. Perhaps hydrogen as a replacement for hydrocarbon fuels will get revisited, perhaps not. Whatever technology they use they will require runways, that is, unless someone comes up with an anti-gravity machine!

[Former Member]

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[Don Fry]

Trouble is Piers, is not the aircraft but all the ground movements associated with the extra aircraft. That area of London already breaks air pollution regulations. That means it kills people.

But you re right about the UK, poor infrastructure planning, too much political bias in that planning, coupled with an unwillingness to pay for the infrastructure.

By the way, that runway has not been built, and I suspect will not be built without a handout from government, notwithstanding their pleas to the contrary last week.

[Trevor Crook]

There are two aspects to the Leaf story: Range and Fast Charging.

The range bit is a non-story. The NEDC test results have long been discredited, and anyone who believed they would acheive the quoted figures was being naive. My car has an NEDC average of 47mpg, I've never got more than 44 on a run, and it's usually mid-thirties. It's about what I expected from past experience and research before I bought the car. When the new Leaf was first launched, Nissan stated expected real-world range on their sales website as well as the NEDC figure. Now they only quote the WLTP figure of 168 miles.

The website now includes a statement that says that battery charge rate may be reduced on the third fast charge to protect the battery. I imagine this will only affect a very small number of owners who want to travel hundreds of miles in a day..