Max Thrust Ruckus

[Nigel Heather]

Has anyone tried the new Max Thrust Ruckus distributed by Century UK yet?

I'm interested to hear how it stacks up against the Acro Wot Foam-e.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Capt Kremen]

An ingenious re-use of the 'Riot' tooling perhaps?

[Shaun Walsh]

Not sure how much of the Riot tooling is reused, it looks like just the fin, rudder, tailplane and cowling, Wings and fuselage are different size/design. I dare say the motor and servos are common.

Just hope the battery bay is bigger than on the Riot, it took a bit of surgery to fit a 2200 3S lipo in mine.

[Geoff S]

There's a lot of similarity between the Riot (I'm a fan) and the Ruckus and I'm thinking of getting one myself. There was one appeared at the club on Tuesday and it flew well.

A few things I noticed.

1. The undercarriage is angled a long way forward (almost like an old vintage model) which made us wonder if it would track OK on the take off run. It didn't seem to matter.

2. The battery access is good. The cockpit lifts off to reveal a lot of space. Easily enough for a 3AH 3S pack I would think. Maybe an issue for CoG but should be OK.

3. The owner had fitted a 4S 2200 pack which I thought was a bit excessive at the time (more later) however the test pilot really put it through its paces and it flew well. Vertical rolls no problem. There's a 40 amp esc and I suspect the motor is the same as the Riot. I think the prop is a 12x6 (like the Riot).

4. The owner flew it himself, also with a 4S pack and commented the esc was hot afterwards so I persuaded him to let me check the current. With the installed pack (which had just flown for about 5 minutes) it was drawing about 40 amps! We tried a 3S freshly charged pack from another member and that drew around 30 amps IIRC. It wasn't flown with a 3S pack so I don't know the performance with the lower voltage.

My conclusion is that it's a good low wing replacement for the Riot and probably as sturdy (my Riot is my fall back model in any flyable wind strength). However, as it stands, it should be limited to 3S LiPos. If you wish to go 4S then you should change either the esc or the prop (or both). No idea of the motor current spec but the kv on the Riot is 850 rpm IIRC.

hth

Geoff

[Mike T]

IIRC it's significantly more expensive than the Riot and I can't see why...

[Nigel Heather]

The advert says that a 4s can be used for higher performance but suggests that the prop size is changed - presumably to keep the amps down.

How did its flying compare with an acro wot foam-e

Cheers,

Nigel

Edited By Nigel Heather on 23/08/2018 11:56:14

[Shaun Walsh]

Posted by Mike T on 23/08/2018 11:06:19:

IIRC it's significantly more expensive than the Riot and I can't see why...

The manufacturers are probably front-loading the cost of the new moulds to ensure that they don't make a loss if it doesn't prove popular.

The Riot has been around a while so the moulds for that have probably been paid for a while ago so you can afford to keep the price lower.

[Geoff S]

Posted by Nigel Heather on 23/08/2018 11:55:34:
The advert says that a 4s can be used for higher performance but suggests that the prop size is changed - presumably to keep the amps down.

How did its flying compare with an acro wot foam-e

Cheers,

Nigel

I have an Acrowot foam-e and the Ruckus seemed to fly as well but it was a couple of flights witnessed at secondhand and with a 4S battery. One big advantage is the easy battery access in the Ruckus (trying to install even a compact 3s2200 into the Acrowot is somewhat fiddly in my experience) and I think it will be more robust but that's just my first impression based on my Riot (actually mine is labelled as a Devil but it's identical).

As it's supplied I don't think it will cope long with a 4S without modification. The esc won't tolerate being pushed so hard that it gets hot - I suspect a freshly charged 4S will push it beyond 40 amps.

Geoff

[andyh]

if it's the same powertrain as the Riot, 4S is a recommended upgrade with a slight drop in prop size to 10x6. there's a lump of steel in the nose that can be removed to liven the CofG up a bit too:

**LINK**

[Peter Beeney]

Geoff, Apologies for going slightly off topic but this might at least partly relate to the Ruckus; I changed the prop on a Riot for an APC i/c 9 x 6 when I went to 4 cells and the result was instantly electrifying. (Sorry!) But I notice the motor is now V2, version 2? so it may be completely different. Certainly worth investigating though.

This from a Riot thread that I posted in 2016.

I have a ‘hack’ Riot which has flown on 4 cells for quite some time now. It’s certainly been through the wars, so to speak, but still keeps tramping on, actually it’s still rather lively; and it’s also been modified a bit to cope with the extra poke.

The motor is ok, but it is fairly basic, it has a plain oilite bronze bush bearing, they are not that easy to repair but I’ve vandalised mine more than once; and oddly enough, I can find every size of bush on the web except that one. Same with the rear end circlip, we have a very friendly motor accessory shop handy and they have every size of E clip bar the Riot motor! There is a compatible ‘Donkey’ motor from HK, exact same fit and very much cheaper; lower kV rating, though, 720 from memory. So a 9 x 7 might be ok here.

When I changed to 4 cells I straightaway found the rudder and particularly the elevator were very iffy, so I decided that the push rods were now not up to the job and I moved the servos to the rear end and used short stout metal push rods. Much better, but the elevator could still be a bit reluctant, especially at the end of a flat out power dive very close to the ground. Interesting times! Installing a Blue Bird 380 metal geared fixed it, now total confidence in any situation. The aileron servos have never blinked, though, despite having the max travel available. Like every thing else, they often have to work hard when I go flying, I sometimes tend to get a bit carried away in the heat of the moment…

I changed straight to a 9 x 7 ACP i/c prop, this was excellent until the motor started chattering loudly, on landing I found the bearing had knocked itself out and was mostly plastered around the motor on the inside of the fuz in the form of a black gunge. I replaced this with one from a motor with broken lugs, changed to a 9 x 6 ACP and it’s been fine ever since. I’m not too keen on the Century prop driver either, so I changed that too.

I tend not to generally consider watts and stuff too much, I just use a tacho and check how hot it’s running. Incidentally, if the motor starts stuttering cut the throttle immediately; the power system is being subjected to a full current flow and could quickly complain by rapidly overheating.
The motor is rated at 850 kV and 4 cells fully charged = 16.8V. 850 x 16.8 = 14280 rpm, which is about what I clocked for the no-load rpm. On the 9 x 6 it’s 12000 rpm, which gives a theoretical in the air speed of about 68 mph. The nominal voltage figure of 14.8 gives a speed of about 60 mph. The pack is a 2.2Ah Nano Tech, I fly for around 5 - 6 minutes if using a lot of loud pedal, but there’s always some ampere minutes left. I’d estimate a current flow of around 30 amps, perhaps, everything stays nicely cool even after a lively flight; but there is a good cooling air flow through; very important.

The next move might be upping the ante to some Hyperion higher voltage 4 cell packs. A little bit more get up and go and these have a reputation for being able to hold the voltage up under load, too.

Hope this useful for anyone who is looking to improve the performance a few shades!

Edit. Just for interest, I’ve just checked the current, and with a fully charged pack it’s 33.3 amps. So up to about 560 watts then.

PB

As I recall the standard model came supplied with a black plastic 12 x 6 prop which was ok for normal flying. Circa. 2012 onwards we had 3 Riots plus some other models at a school where I was then helping some beginners. If the Ruckus is as tough and as hardy as the Riot it should be another winner.

As always I just tend to poke and hope. But I’m sure for more refined modellers that would be trial and error…

I never did check the CoG but moving the servos to the back increased the agility too. Great stuff!

PB

[Shaun Walsh]

I did wonder if the pushrods on the tailplane and rudder of the Riot were up to the job, they do seem a bit thin. Wonder if the ones on the Ruckus are any more robust?

[Geoff S]

I flew my Riot in very high wind on Sunday and the only problem I had was with the nut holding he transmitter The push rods were OK.

Having been involved in electrical and electronic engineering literally all my life (I was brought up living over the family radio etc business) I do take an interest in the numbers associated with electrically powered models and always check current and set up the systems in the models I build to have appropriate power delivery. I find 80 watts/lb is more than adequate for reasonable aerobatic performance rather than the oft quoted 100watts/lb which was the rule of thumb with brushed motors and NiCads. The Riot is adequately powered but a bit more wouldn't go amiss. However I usually fly for 7/8 minutes on a 3S 2200 LiPo and land with 25/30% left but I do use the throttle in both directions.

Geoff

[Peter Beeney]

Yes, indeed, I found that as standard the Riot is absolutely fine, I certainly never had any problems with servos or pushrods on three cells. It was only when upping the speed a bit did it become apparent that sometimes the controls were wondering whether to operate or not; not really an ideal situation for my blood pressure. Something had to be done. Of course it may have been simply my Riot was at fault, others may not have the same problems.

I tried a test flight (2.2Ah 3 cell) in training mode down to a flat battery, this went to 14 minutes; average current consumption therefore around 9 - 10 amps; based on that for training purposes when there was a little queue of young wanna be aviators I used clockwork kitchen timers set to 5 minutes and ran 2 flights per battery. At one time we had some short flight problems which I initially thought was battery but it was an ESC. Century replaced it immediately.

I simply check the motor’s unloaded speed, usually very close to quoted figure but some can be way off and then try different props until I find the best one to suit the conditions I want. It might then be possible to find the watts/lb by going backwards perhaps. My clamp meter is a bit versatile, it’s auto AC/DC measuring amps, watts, V/As, phase angle, volts and Hertz. It also has a connection to drive a scope; but I’ve never bothered with any of this, as long as the prop turns at a point fairly close to the unloaded speed and nothing much starts heating up under full load that does it for me.

A bit of guessing here. Riot flying weight? 3lb? Full chat current on 3 cells with a nominal 11.1V? 30 amps? If this is anywhere near then I’m thinking the watts/lb are around 110. Sounds about right to me.

Guessing again, I’d say the Ruckus as listed on 4S at 40 amps is very close to around 150 - 160 watts/lb

It keeps that charger warm, at least…

Happy landings..

PB

[Capt Kremen]

Oh well ... bit the 'plastic' bullet and just taken delivery of my 'Ruckus' ... first impressions ...

Fuselage - a new/revised(?) moulding with elements of the 'Riot' incorporated. Much better access to LiPo & radio gear under a detachable canopy but no pilot in this nice office ... shame!

Tailplane & Fin - same as 'Riot' BUT with cyno 'paper' hinges instead of plastic that the 'Riot' enjoys ... shame!

Main Wing - same as 'Riot' with (slight) modifications. (You can see where the 'Riot' wing has been adapted)

Equipment - Mmm ... s'pose OK. Servos and linkages can be waggled around indicating a combination of slop and imprecision. Cheap clevisis with comically thin silicone keepers! Spinner is now a SIG 1.75" item, a vast improvement on the original 'Riot' foam effort but still an unbalanced affair with a 'bendy' no name 12x6 prop. Undercarriage retained(?) with 4 tiny self tappers ... (thinks for how long will that last in everyday use???). Chinese metal 'bolt' axles too but wheels are a reasonable size. Motor - A very slim 850Kv unit. If changing, then minor surgery needed to fit a more conventional size unit withing the nose/cowl area.

Next week's weather suggests a possible first test flight.

Will take some WattMeter measurements and report back later.

[Nigel Heather]

Posted by Capt Kremen on 24/08/2018 15:17:15:

Oh well ... bit the 'plastic' bullet and just taken delivery of my 'Ruckus' ... first impressions ...

Fuselage - a new/revised(?) moulding with elements of the 'Riot' incorporated. Much better access to LiPo & radio gear under a detachable canopy but no pilot in this nice office ... shame!

Tailplane & Fin - same as 'Riot' BUT with cyno 'paper' hinges instead of plastic that the 'Riot' enjoys ... shame!

Main Wing - same as 'Riot' with (slight) modifications. (You can see where the 'Riot' wing has been adapted)

Equipment - Mmm ... s'pose OK. Servos and linkages can be waggled around indicating a combination of slop and imprecision. Cheap clevisis with comically thin silicone keepers! Spinner is now a SIG 1.75" item, a vast improvement on the original 'Riot' foam effort but still an unbalanced affair with a 'bendy' no name 12x6 prop. Undercarriage retained(?) with 4 tiny self tappers ... (thinks for how long will that last in everyday use???). Chinese metal 'bolt' axles too but wheels are a reasonable size. Motor - A very slim 850Kv unit. If changing, then minor surgery needed to fit a more conventional size unit withing the nose/cowl area.

Next week's weather suggests a possible first test flight.

Will take some WattMeter measurements and report back later.

I guess you get what you pay for. I’m coming back to the hobby after about 10 years, flying a glow-powered sports plane (high wing stick). I feel compelled to move with the times and get something electric. I must admit I don’t like the look of foamies, much prefering the traditional balsa and film. So I did look at the acro wot GP/EP but a little put off by how expensive it ends up finished, which I could just about live with, but then how expensive the batteries that would be needed 5S 5000mAh - and I guess you would need at least three. Talking close to £500. Also the batteries seem an odd size so not sure they would be of use in any other models.

So any suggestions of what else I should take a look at?

Cheers,

Nigel

[Capt Kremen]

Maidened my 'Ruckus' today and had 8 flights.

(If powers that be on this site post a spot for me to leave a review in that section, I will do so).

In summary not bad. As always individual preferences are subjective, I did replace quite a few items on the model as it came out of the box. I used a 3000mAh flight pack which was placed as far to the rear of the available space inside the fuselage. Achieved 7min average flights (with 30% capacity left in the 'tank' using supplied motor but replaced with APC 12x6 prop and a 60A UBEC ESC.

No bad habits found so far, performed most aerobatic manoeuvres OK, taxying a little squirally on that forward raked u/c.

PM me if you are interested in the model and more specific details.

[Capt Kremen]

Max Thrust 'Ruckus' STATIC 'WattMeter' Readings Using:

3S 3000mAh Turnigy LiPo 12.8V No-Load,

APC 12x6E Prop, Max Thrust 850kV Motor As Supplied, 60A SBEC ESC

Under Load, Full Power, Static 11.8V, 29.6A, RPM 8400

Total Model Flying Weight: 2067gms /4Lb 9oz

[Capt Kremen]

Ops error!

Edited By Capt Kremen on 29/08/2018 18:31:25

[Geoff S]

That compares quite accurately with what I measured using all the supplied drive train ie 30 amps on a 3S LiPo (I didn't check the rpm or the all-up weight).

Did you try a 4S LiPo? The 40 amps I measured on a slightly depleted 4S with the supplied esc wouldn't trouble your 60 amp replacement but as the safe current spec of the motor isn't quoted it might stress that. Although if you're sensible with throttle management it would probably survive.

I'm not over keen on the undercarriage configuration myself and I'm not surprised it'a bit 'squirrelly' .

I was almost tempted to get one at the Nats but decided to wait. It may be better to get a bare airframe and fit it out with better parts than standard.

Geoff

[Nigel Heather]

Posted by Geoff Sleath on 29/08/2018 21:28:48:

It may be better to get a bare airframe and fit it out with better parts than standard.

Geoff

Does that look possible? I read somewhere, maybe this thread, that the motor on the Riot was unusually thin, so much so it would be difficult to find a third party replacement that would fit.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Capt Kremen]

Not tried with 4 cells yet. As it comes ''out-of-the-box', the wing retaining bolts project into the battery stowage area, not too good! Yes, you can trim these short and cover the blind nuts with something to prevent LiPo chaffing. (Would a newcomer foresee this issue?).

The motor is a very slim unit. I have a surplus ''conventionally' sized motor I may try instead which I know can tolerate 4 cells.

Another niggle(?).The nose area has two weights buried in the foam. My flights suggest these could do with removing if using larger LiPo packs. (I used a 3000 compared with the suggested 2200 size). There is no scope to move the pack further back to adjust the c of g rearward. As it is using the 80 - 100mm c of g, the plane is very docile but still reasonably manoeuvrable.

I may try another u/c, one that is less forward.

Flight trials continue .... 😋

[Simon Feather]

Hi, one of our club members has a Ruckus which he seems happy with - he too had the undercarriage problem, which he cured simply by fitting it on backwards....

[Shaun Walsh]

I did wonder about putting the undercarriage on backwards but thought it might move the wheels too far back and increase the tendency to nose over on landing, alternatively I suppose you could insert a couple of wedges under the front edge of the undercarriage to rake it back a bit.

Does anyone know if the wing servos line up with the wheels like they do on the Riot, had to tape over mine to stop them getting soaked when flying from wet grass.

[Capt Kremen]

The wing is the same as the 'Riot' wing so essentially yes, the u/c position most probably will cause spray and grass clippings onto the aileron servo area. (My strip wasn't wet when I flew my 'Ruckus' so can't tell for certain yet).

My personal preference, I replaced all the supplied servos and those tapped and 'L' shape bent control rods together with the soft clevises and puny silicon keepers. (I use ball links and eliminated the slop and free play found in the supplied set-up as supplied).

One improvement to report, the 'Nav Light' LED connections are much better, gone is the tiny connection to a board as found on the Mk 1 'Riot'.

[Kim Taylor]

Posted by Capt Kremen on 30/08/2018 09:05:03:

Not tried with 4 cells yet. As it comes ''out-of-the-box', the wing retaining bolts project into the battery stowage area, not too good! Yes, you can trim these short and cover the blind nuts with something to prevent LiPo chaffing. (Would a newcomer foresee this issue?).

The motor is a very slim unit. I have a surplus ''conventionally' sized motor I may try instead which I know can tolerate 4 cells.

Another niggle(?).The nose area has two weights buried in the foam. My flights suggest these could do with removing if using larger LiPo packs. (I used a 3000 compared with the suggested 2200 size). There is no scope to move the pack further back to adjust the c of g rearward. As it is using the 80 - 100mm c of g, the plane is very docile but still reasonably manoeuvrable.

I may try another u/c, one that is less forward.

Flight trials continue .... 😋

If you refer to the Riot chat thread, I think you'll find the info you need. The steel weight, which is there in the Riot, is better removed if using larger packs. The motor can be replaced with an alternative - I replaced the motor on my Riot and it's the same front end. The prop ends up about 3mm further forwards if using the threaded boss which the replacement motor comes with, but no apparent ill effects that I've noticed. The std motor, although appearing to have a thin can has a standoff mount which adds to the overall length.

The std motor is suitable for 4 cell though, although a smaller prop to keep the current under control would probably be necessary.

Don't really understand why the undercarriage would be an issue as the layout is pure Riot and I've certainly had no issues with mine.

Kim