Hi All

[Mark Gannon]

Hiya sll

I'm Mark.

Ive just joined the forum.

[Don Fry]

G'day Mark

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Mark Gannon]

Posted by Doc Marten on 13/06/2019 12:38:02:

Hi Mark,

What's your modelling background and interests?

I learned to fly RC on a Seagull Arising Star IC, but I really want to build traditional balsa and ply models. Im practicing at the moment, Lol. I've just built a rubber powered balsa and tissue model. My next project is to convert a 440mm wing span rubber powered West Wings model into 3 chanel with an electric motor.

My ultimate aim is to build a large scale WWI scout.

[Mark Gannon]

Posted by Don Fry on 13/06/2019 12:34:10:

G'day Mark

Cheers Don

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Mark Gannon]

Posted by Doc Marten on 13/06/2019 13:05:51:

Excellent, another traditional builder, you prefer electric or IC?

Good question.

I love the noise, smell and tinkering with IC. I'm only going electric on my current project due to weigh and space issues.

[kc]

You will probably find building and modifying a 440mm span rubber model to RC is much more difficult than building an established IC model of about 52 inch span. For example beefing up the rubber model structure to take the extra weight of motor & lipo without increasing weight too much will need some experience or advice. On the contrary numerous IC model to existing designs ( for example Peter Millers plans) will have build threads here on Modelflying and somebody else will have solved all the problems first. And you can be sure the model will fly well when finished. So consider a sports model of medium size that will help your flying progress too - maybe the Peter Miller Ballerina design. Peter is often here on the forum to advise too. Or the rather similar Hanger Monkey from a different designer a year or two ago.

But of course the trick is to build a model you need and desire but not a scale one that is too complex and takes for ever to finish.

Edited By kc on 13/06/2019 19:04:45

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

Welcome Mark , here you will be comfortable and ,also, you have my support from abroad .

Jo

Edited By Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 13/06/2019 21:45:19

[kevin b]

Hi Mark.

I can see your train of thought, re the rubber powered kit build and then convert another that you are familiar with the construction.

If I may suggest, you might be better advised to scale up slightly, even if building space is currently at a premium. Converting small models to electric is an art in itself and requires significant expenditure on miniature equipment. If you were to build slightly larger model, say 600 - 800mm span, then you would find it easier to work on and fly. You could also source cheaper components, that aren't as critical on weight.

Have a look at some of the kits on here. **LINK**

If you want to convert a kit to electric power, then trawl through the build logs on the various websites (and YouTube). There is plenty of information out there to help you, as well as all the advice you can get on here.

At this stage building from a kit is probably your best bet. Once you are familiar with the type of construction it will be a slightly smaller step to building from a plan.

Kevin b

[Mark Gannon]

Thanks for the advice guys. It's most welcome

My original think was to start small and simple as I didn't want to bite off more than I could chew.

I've only built and flown .40 size ARTF's

I've built a rubber powered balsa and tissue model and that turned out way better than I expected.

I like the look of the Flair Attila, but I don't know if my building skill level is at that point yet.

I don't want to end up with an unfinished project languishing in my garage for eternity

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Flair Atilla is a pretty good kit, you'll be o.k with it Mark.

[kevin b]

PM sent.

[Mark Gannon]

Posted by kevin b on 13/06/2019 21:57:41:

Hi Mark.

I can see your train of thought, re the rubber powered kit build and then convert another that you are familiar with the construction.

If I may suggest, you might be better advised to scale up slightly, even if building space is currently at a premium. Converting small models to electric is an art in itself and requires significant expenditure on miniature equipment. If you were to build slightly larger model, say 600 - 800mm span, then you would find it easier to work on and fly. You could also source cheaper components, that aren't as critical on weight.

Have a look at some of the kits on here. **LINK**

If you want to convert a kit to electric power, then trawl through the build logs on the various websites (and YouTube). There is plenty of information out there to help you, as well as all the advice you can get on here.

At this stage building from a kit is probably your best bet. Once you are familiar with the type of construction it will be a slightly smaller step to building from a plan.

Kevin b

Hiya Kevin.

I looked at the link you posted and I quite like the look of the Silver Lady, a 30 inch (762mm) 3 chanel they have there. It looks pretty straight forward judging by the pic

[kevin b]

Most of these old plans are available from the download sites.

You can have a look at the plan and then decide if you want (need) to buy the kit.

**LINK**

[Mark Gannon]

Posted by kevin b on 13/06/2019 22:30:25:

Most of these old plans are available from the download sites.

You can have a look at the plan and then decide if you want (need) to buy the kit.

**LINK**

To be honest the silver lady looks easier to build than the rubber powered kit I built. That's suprised me!

[kc]

I see that the Silver Lady does not have the formers shown on the plan..... so it's necessary to work those out for yourself ( see note on the website) Not ideal.

One of the things about buying a kit is the wood choice is already made and hopefully is suitable. This is one of the features of building from scratch - balsa is such a variable material that selecting the right grade for the job is key. A matter of experience really.

Starting building with a well established kit like Wot4, SLEC FunFly or Limbo Dancer will be worthwhile and will produce the kind of model that helps progress in flying and also a basic model for engine testing or all weather flying in future.

Another consideration is power unit and building models that will all take the same engine or use the same size Lipos. As one needs 3 or 4 or more Lipos to have a decent flying session without recharging it's helpful to have several models that can use the same type. So many of us standardise on 3S2200 or 4S 3000/4500 to help minimise battery types/cost. Same with glow motors - a .40 or .46 two stroke will be useful in many models, same with .25 etc, etc.

[ken anderson.]

welcome mark...

ken anderson...ne...1...welcome dept.

[Mark Gannon]

Posted by kc on 14/06/2019 10:49:53:

I see that the Silver Lady does not have the formers shown on the plan..... so it's necessary to work those out for yourself ( see note on the website) Not ideal.

One of the things about buying a kit is the wood choice is already made and hopefully is suitable. This is one of the features of building from scratch - balsa is such a variable material that selecting the right grade for the job is key. A matter of experience really.

Starting building with a well established kit like Wot4, SLEC FunFly or Limbo Dancer will be worthwhile and will produce the kind of model that helps progress in flying and also a basic model for engine testing or all weather flying in future.

Another consideration is power unit and building models that will all take the same engine or use the same size Lipos. As one needs 3 or 4 or more Lipos to have a decent flying session without recharging it's helpful to have several models that can use the same type. So many of us standardise on 3S2200 or 4S 3000/4500 to help minimise battery types/cost. Same with glow motors - a .40 or .46 two stroke will be useful in many models, same with .25 etc, etc.

Thanks for the advice.

I was going to go electric because of availability issues with 2 stroke glow engines. I have a .46 Irvine in my trainer, but they don't make those anymore and electric us cheaper than going with a 4 stroke engine.

[Mark Gannon]

Posted by ken anderson. on 14/06/2019 11:09:27:

welcome mark...

ken anderson...ne...1...welcome dept.

Thanks Ken

[Jon H]

While considering your building skills dont forget your flying skills.

WWI aircraft, as well as things like piper cubs and tiger moth's require a different technique and are very much stick and rudder type models where as your ic trainer is much more stable. Being proficient with your rudder is very important with these types of model.

Some will tell you to mix the rudder using your radio. I dont recommend it at all as you often need to use the controls in opposition to each other and its really not hard to do with your hands. It just needs a little practice.

My 50 inch Nieuport 17 (see photo) is a bit of a handful at times but to be honest that is half the fun. If it was easy why bother?

I recommend you get yourself something like an artf cub to practice on. They arent that expensive and if you plan things well you can take the engine and radio from the cub into the WWI model you are building in the background. Dont worry about your building skills, just go for it and if you get lost or confused, ask the forum. You will get 20 different answers, but again that is the whole point of building a model as its your model so you build/modify as you feel you want to.

oh and for scale models it has to be 4 stroke. They might be a bit more expensive, but they are much nicer power plants in my view and i went all 4 stroke probably 15 years ago  My nieuport up there uses a little saito 45 (my smallest engine currently in use) and my bigger stuff uses all 4 stroke up to 60cc sizes. 

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 14/06/2019 13:06:02

[kc]

There are so many .46 and other two strokes around unused that you should be able to buy a secondhand one from a clubmember if you ask around. Or go to a show like Wings and Wheels and try the Bring and Buy stand. Usually so many left unsold that if you wait until the last half hour you may be able to negotiate a good price.

You could look for an Enya 40SS as a much undervalued engine which lasts forever in plain bearing form. I have seen them for sale as little as 12 to 20 pounds - bit of a risk buying from someone you don't know but if the engine turns over nicely worth a chance at that sort of price.

[Mark Gannon]

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 14/06/2019 13:04:06:

While considering your building skills dont forget your flying skills.

WWI aircraft, as well as things like piper cubs and tiger moth's require a different technique and are very much stick and rudder type models where as your ic trainer is much more stable. Being proficient with your rudder is very important with these types of model.

Some will tell you to mix the rudder using your radio. I dont recommend it at all as you often need to use the controls in opposition to each other and its really not hard to do with your hands. It just needs a little practice.

My 50 inch Nieuport 17 (see photo) is a bit of a handful at times but to be honest that is half the fun. If it was easy why bother?

I recommend you get yourself something like an artf cub to practice on. They arent that expensive and if you plan things well you can take the engine and radio from the cub into the WWI model you are building in the background. Dont worry about your building skills, just go for it and if you get lost or confused, ask the forum. You will get 20 different answers, but again that is the whole point of building a model as its your model so you build/modify as you feel you want to.

oh and for scale models it has to be 4 stroke. They might be a bit more expensive, but they are much nicer power plants in my view and i went all 4 stroke probably 15 years ago My nieuport up there uses a little saito 45 (my smallest engine currently in use) and my bigger stuff uses all 4 stroke up to 60cc sizes.

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 14/06/2019 13:06:02

I'm pretty proficient on the Arising Star, but I hardly use any rudder at all on that. I was labouring under the misconception that 3 chanel was easier in some way.

[Jon H]

Most trainers have good directional stability and turn without the need for much correction in yaw. Scale models of almost any type do not behave this way and require rudder correction to some degree or another. WWI aircraft are the 'worst' of the bunch as aviation was a new concept and the idea was to steer aircraft like a car or boat. As such they were designed with large rudders and relatively small/ineffective ailerons.

I fly a variety of scale models from the little 50 inch Nieuport to 80 inch WWII fighters and a 1/4 scale Stampe (its like a tiger moth) biplane. All of them require rudder control in varying amounts during flight and i probably use the rudder as much as elevator and ailerons. Even in sport models i use it all the time to keep on the line i want or to correct any wind influence.

The Piper cub is a very popular model but also one that many insist is a pig to fly. They arent, its just that they dont fly as people expect. Cubs are scale models and follow the traits and characteristics of their full size counterparts. As a result they need a large amount of rudder coordination to fly properly. Once mastered cubs are great fun and you can do all manor or stupid things with them as they are very benign.

If your desire is to fly scale models and fly them well i recommend you start learning to use the tall flappy bit at the back far more often. A simple test is to fly a normal circuit using rudder and elevator only. If you cant do it, you arent good enough to fly anything scale. I know some will disagree with that statement and fine, thats your choice, but really it should be possible to fly decent circuits with any model using rudder and elevator only. I occasionally practice it on my own models and even 80 inch warbirds will fly rudder only circuits with relative ease.