What are my options?

[Former Member]

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[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I buy very little, tat or otherwise, i expect i could throw some more western examples in quite easy.

The crazy man as an example ? Oh dear, how about the Countries trashed by his, this one barely scratches the surface of those numbers, difference is the west getting hurt ?

Read up how many Millions died of western disease in the Americas and elsewhere, how about the Native Americans/Australians ? British Empire ?

[Pete B]

Yes, we are watching, folks, as ever....

Whilst there is undoubtedly a political element, the reality is that it's more about the economic and industrial realitiies of the world in which we now live and that's not going to unroll any time soon. Many components of everyday items, sold under the names of long-established Western companies, are now manufactured in the Far East and it would be impossible, IMHO, to pick and choose what your conscience allows you to buy with any confidence that you're buying a 100% Western-manufactured product.

You all have my confidence that the chat will continue without us needing to intervene.....

Pete

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 22/04/2020 18:41:29:

Yes, we are watching, folks, as ever....

Whilst there is undoubtedly a political element, the reality is that it's more about the economic and industrial realitiies of the world in which we now live and that's not going to unroll any time soon. Many components of everyday items, sold under the names of long-established Western companies, are now manufactured in the Far East and it would be impossible, IMHO, to pick and choose what your conscience allows you to buy with any confidence that you're buying a 100% Western-manufactured product.

You all have my confidence that the chat will continue without us needing to intervene.....

Pete

[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

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[paul d]

Doc, I do try where ever possible to avoid buying Chinese goods and if I do have to then I'll order through a British model shop and firmly believe in supporting British manufacturers in all aspects of my life.

You mention 2 strokes, there's always PAW ( diesels only but lovely engines) or indeed West.

[Former Member]

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[kevin b]

Back to the original question.

I will not be changing my buying rationale.

Do I want it quickly = where is the nearest shop ?

Do I want it cheap = ebay (Ali express, HobbyKing, etc)

Do I want quality = check internet prices = then talk to LMS

Did you know all Radio Active components are manufactured in the U.K. ? Many of them are repackaged (for other distributors) and people think they are imported !

There are two main reasons for Chinese goods being cheaper. 1. goods are sold at less than manufacturing cost in order to get foreign currency. 2. China has a discount on international postage as it is considered an "emerging economy".

I don't have any issues with quality manufactured goods from China (I do from America). However I do have issues with people who import from China and sell goods, which they purport to be "quality" items when they most certainly are not.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

You brought compensation up Barrie, i don't need research to know poverty is a killer.

Chinese tat ? Nope not in the O.P

[Stephen Smith 14]

I will continue to buy from China if necessary for the item I want, I use Czechoslovakian radio currently building a British kit, have two British kits in the loft and three American kits (by kits I mean kits not artf) I have some hitec servos not sure where there made but don't think it's Chinese, have os and Irvine engines.

On the other hand I have Chinese foamys and balsa artfs, piles of Chinese servos, motors, escs, engines and verious other stuff from them, not only modeling.

Please also remember they do a great line in wild bat meat, yummy.

[Bruce Collinson]

Thanks you Pete B for picking the material issues out of this.

What I dodged earlier (West, Oracover, Moki, DA, PAW .. hang on, there’s more ...) was LiPos. Do we know whether there are any out there NOT made in the ROC, eg Japan Taiwan or Korea? I know they carry all sorts of labels, as do many mass consumer items as has been articulated above. I was recommended to Gens Ace as being German (John, I’ve had German diesels and they did what I expected) but they seem to be scarce.

There is clearly a minority amongst us thus far which prefers to keep its expenditure closer to home. A point was made, well, above that where items are, practically, only available from China then buy from a UK seller, as I do regularly from 4Max. (Paul D.). What would help me and my over-developed sense of what’s right is to know the point of manufacture of core items. Just checked a favourite Savox; Taiwan!

Basic Keynesian economics direct that supply and demand even themselves out in time. Ergo, if more buyers discriminated towards smaller local suppliers and manufacturers (and therefore away from bulk makers and sellers) then the latter would prosper and expand, instead of being unsellable on retirement or on lease expiry or whatever. The long term choice would expand and an equivalent reduction in the reliance on imports would reduce. As Doc has to keep reiterating, he merely asked whether choices are shifting. Evidently not, universally.

You pays etc.

BTC

[Pete B]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 22/04/2020 19:35:28:

What do you call 100% western manufactured? There are content formulas for local content, just interested in what your views on 100% are?

B.

I'm just looking at it from a simplistic, if extreme, point of view, Barrie. Dismantle, say, a Western-badged car, plant machinery, refrigerator, garden mower - anything with a significant number of components - and, at some point in the process, it is highly likely that an Eastern-sourced component will be found, even if it's only components on a PCB.

I don't think it's possible for anyone to now exercise their prejudice against Far East manufacture to the nth degree and be successful, if that's the word, in achieving their aim.

I understand the local content formula principle - without it I'm sure there would be a dearth of products to buy! Like it or not, the world is reliant on trade co-operation to function. Governments just need to get the balance right - and I don't ever see that happening with the cost of labour being so varied across the world.

I do remember, back in the 70s, my wife's uncle becoming apoplectic when he found we had bought a Datsun Cherry. He had been a FE POW. It took a long time for him to forgive us.

Pete

[Former Member]

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[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Just waiting on new diaphragm/gasket set for my Makita stone cutter, Japanese, carb (Tillotsun) stamped made in Ireland, carb bits USA, delivered by Royal Mail ish.

[Nigel R]

"I take it you're not changing but don't want to say so, if that's the case, this topic isn't of any interest to you."

Not the case, well, strictly speaking I'm not changing, but I don't buy the cheapest of everything.

My position was really summed up in an earlier post, changing from buying from China? Good luck. Chinese manufacture and involvement in world economics is impossible to avoid, in a general sense.

Does it mean I avoid chinese hobby stuff? Not on cheap and cheerfull small things, small motors, speed controllers, 9g servos.

But bigger stuff, yes. Pay more, crash less.

Edited By Nigel R on 23/04/2020 10:42:40

[Former Member]

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[Erfolg]

For UK manufacturing to flourish, political parties of all hues will need to change there views to manufacturing. Profit should not be a dirty word, not seen as a cash cow. Service charges by utilities, Local Authorities should not be an easy way to obtain cash. The idea of taxing turn over, rather than profit is recipe to stifle investment. The list goes on.

The issue then is who is going to pay that all of us citizens wants, particularly from the state? Just taxing those who are much richer than ourselves, whilst not wanting to pay taxes as an individual, both stifles aspiration, and drives out of the UK many of those who make things happen.

There may be a lot wrong, or seen as unfair else where, although we live in Glass House ourselves.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Don't go holding your breath Doc, It'll be as you where when this is over, moneys the be all and end all, for much of society. There'll be little need for social distancing on the road to Damascus.

[Former Member]

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[kevin b]

Posted by Doc Marten on 23/04/2020 18:34:51:

I'm remaining optimistic for the time being John, this in many ways, appears to be the kick up the jacksey we all needed to wake us up.

Lemmings gather in large numbers and throw themselves off the nearest cliff.

There is nothing proven that those which survive learn anything from the experience.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I wasn't aware profit was a dirty word, you made that up I reckon, greed should be a dirty word.

Two words I detest "Low Skilled" It's a con, a put down, an insult, it's a means to pay little, for some very hard and demanding work. Tucked up safe and sound because there's danger out there, whilst the "Low skilled" keep us going.

Would be lovely if we all showed these people more respect, when this is over and paid em a better wage. I shan't hold my breath though.