Denis Watkins Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Posted by Gary Clark 1 on 19/05/2020 12:30:03: I'll have a look on just engines and see what I can get. Cheers Gary Just Engines do make up prop nuts if not a stock part Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clark 1 Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 Very helpful photos Nick. Seeing the tail wheel mechanism for real makes it much clearer and definitely seems manageable. Maybe some mini shock absorbers from rc cars might be good for centering? Is that what stage you are currently at Nick? I agree with the sheeting vs planking but I reckon I could get away with a combination of both. Planned around the top and bottom and sheets for the sides. It will save a bit of time sanding but if it becomes too tough then it will be planked. I dont mind planking, I just get covered in glue and it feels like it take forever! Thanks Dennis, I had a quick look there and I see they do have prop nuts. I need a few other bits from them so I might email and ask if the could modify the one I have for me instead of buying a new one. Worth an ask I suppose. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clark 1 Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 And also very tidy work Nick. Forgot to say that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Somerville Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Its expansion springs I need as opposed to compression. Fairly light to give enough tension to hold the wheel centrally, so that it won’t snag the doors going up or down. Also another pair needed for where the closed loop lines join the rudder closed loop bell crank, so any wheel shocks are not transferred to the servo. A bit stronger for those I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clark 1 Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 Would mounting a spring from either side of the bottom brackets out to the ends of the steering arm work? Gentle enough to allow expansion whilst turning so that the other side is compressed and you'll get a push on one side whilst getting a pull from the expanded spring? Sorry if I'm missing something, trying to imagine it working! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 two small lengths of piano wire, one from each side, acting against the tail wheel will keep it straight once the pull pull lines go slack. This is my BT P-51, in this case the two wires are bent into one as you can see. I hope. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Somerville Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Pretty much what I was thinking Garry. If the expansion springs are light and are anchored fully at each of tje attachment points you mentioned it should work fine, though I don’t think any compression if the springs is a factor. The spring on the shortened side when turning will just droop. Lets see when I source Some springs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clark 1 Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 Thanks Danny, the picture makes it very clear. Seems very simple but I will have to get my hands on it and experiment. Hopefully you will get most of the trial and error Nick and I can just follow on! Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly-navy Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Might be worth having a ride over to see Charlie Cox at Kings Lynn models gary he might be able to help or know someone with a lathe. Personally mate (Sir) I would hang fire and see how the final outcome is with the CoG and if nose weight is req'd get nut made out of appropriate material, some guys on LMA offer these services. ill send you pm tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clark 1 Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 Good idea John, I have also emailed just engines to see if they can modify but waiting to get one of different metal is a good plan. I am still waiting for some materials to arrive so I stepped away from the P-47 to glass the fuselage of my 1/4 Bates Moth Minor. I bravely (or stupidly) decided to try and do the whole forward 2/3rds top and sides in one go..... I watched Danny Fenton's very useful glassing videos on Youtube and that's what gave me the courage. You make it look so easy Danny!I managed it in just under 30 mins as the Fighter Aces resin was starting to thicken up but we got there It is actually a bit tidier around the bottom than the photo there shows. If any of you scale boffins look closely you will see the scale outline of the cockpit in red and that's not what i used....sorry to you pureists, i just preferred it the way i did it! It is just for big relaxing flying so no need for exact detail. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 That's brilliant Gary well done, Peel ply as well I am impressed. You will have to feather that hard edge between the front and rear, but it will be easily done Really pleased you got on okay, make sure you leave the glass for a good 18-24 hours before peeling, and like you would masking tape, fold it back against the surface as you are pulling. You do not want to lift any of the glass-cloth, though it is unlikely. Made my day, well done Cheers Danny Edited By Danny Fenton on 21/05/2020 23:25:46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Elen Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Hi Gary, If you get really stuck with the prop hub, give me a shout. I could turn you something up if you have the dimensions. Cheers Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clark 1 Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 Thanks Danny! If i am being honest, that was too big an area to try and go for in one go because it was tense towards the end! Hopefully i got away with it and i thing other resins would have gone off in that time. With regard to feathering the hard edge, would you sand that back before the next layer or afterwards? Pre peel ply, i would have put it all on overlappping and sand back to smooth. I might take you up on that Mark, still got a while before that is required but that is very kind of you. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Hi Gary, obviously sanding balsa next to glass has dangers, you only want to knock the lumps off the resin, so the adjoing glass cloth can lay flat. So yes once the peel is off, and the resin solid sand the edge Really well done, but you may indeed have found the limit what you can do before the resin starts to congeal Its not till you have done it a few times before you know how wet you can make the peel ply, too dry and lots of glass cloth weaves show. Too much resin and the peel ply is hard work to remove. Dim the lights when you peel, the glow is quite impressive if you havent seen it. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Somerville Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Garry, do you have a few pictures of your rudder for the P47. I am making mine up with the Sarik parts provided but that section behind the rear end of the fuselage is somewhat interesting. I am actually thinking of abandoning the parts I have started sanding and redoing it as a hollow structure. Just seems unnecessarily heavy in solid balsa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clark 1 Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 I got the peel ply off last night Danny and all seems ok so far. I'll get the end sanded down a bit then get the glass on the rear section today then hopefully the underside tomorrow. Want to get it sanded down and get some primer on to see how she has come out but I need patience! I've just dug out the parts of the rudder since it is the only part of the tail I still have to build. There are 2 3/8 parts and 1 1/8 part so I have no idea what's going on if being honest. Clearly I don't need almost an inch thick rudder so must be extra parts there. Unusual for BT, there isn't really any detail on the plan that I can see about the rudder. I also noticed in Trevor's build that he didn't use a solid balsa one and instead used a built up one, maybe Trevor could help us out a bit? I'll have a better look at the plans later as they are pinned to the board just now but easy to lift off. Gary Edited By Gary Clark 1 on 23/05/2020 11:12:01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 As you say that is most odd that it should be solid wood? Not like Brian at all. He tends to favor a 1/16 core with riblets and 1/16 sheeting? Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clark 1 Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 Agreed Danny, it is the first BT one i have seen like this. The P-47 has a bulge at the bottom of the rudder that keeps the shape of the rounded fuselage and then returns to flat sides above the elevators to match the fin so maybe the solid rudder allows you to shape this rather than trying to mimic that with riblets as sheeting that would be tough. Just a thought and probably only relevant if going for accurate scale. Thanks for the photo Danny, this part is faded on my plan for some reason so not very clear. What is you guys interpretation of it? I'm not sure what its trying to show. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clark 1 Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 This is a photo from Brian Wood's P-47 from his thread on RSCB. It shows the shape of the bottom of the rudder pretty well. It is an excellent thread if you are interested in top end scale building. Very talented chap. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just have to bear in mind Brian scaled the model up a fair bit. But as you say a very good modeller. I was looking at the rudder on the Brian Taylor P-51 that I really should get back on to and he has done a built up rudder with the lower bulge, it is also present on the Mustang. I think he has done the rudder solid to allow for the material missing from the leading edge, to accommodate the elevator horn assembly. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Somerville Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Garry, thanks for photo of Brian’s rudder that shows what I was thinking. My Sarik pack had 2 x 1/4 And 4 x 3/8 rudder pieces! I left out one of the 1/4 sections and glued the rest up and the bottom section still isn’t Quite wide enough to for the bottom profile, though the whole block would make a decent door stop. I take the point about thickness needed around the elevator horn area which is covered with non structural litho. I think I will press on and sand it all to shape and consider what weight is left after covering the workshop in shavings. If too heavy will come up with an alternative. Will keep you posted. Good to see the peel ply on the glass cloth. Done plenty of glass cloth work on scale sailplanes years ago, and more recently on the front end of my Stampe, but a new technique for me so thanks for showing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Wood 4 Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Hi Guys, The BT Vultee Valiant plan shows the same solid construction 2 x 1/2" lamination thought it's one of his earlier design ? I have gone built up route to save some lead up front 😄👍 regards Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clark 1 Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 Hi Guys, I have finished the glassing on the moth minor fuselage so back into the thunderbolt. I'll post some pics once i get some primer on to see how she turns out. It is my first glass project to use peel ply on so i'm very intrigued to see how it works. I reckon Danny is right with the solid rudder being there for a structural reason so i am going to keep it as is. There is so much space up front on the P-47 that i think I think i can save adding lead by getting more of the electronics up there such as receiver and retract battery. Will have a small ignition battery up there also so a good amount of weight to load up there if required. Nice looking tail there Ray, i am enjoying your build and look forward to seeing it progress. Anyway, enough chat, i have a seriously thick rudder that needs sanded down!! Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Gary, there is one bit of advice re Brian's plans. "deviate at your peril" Every line affects another. I have learned that from experience, the guy is a very talented designer. You will not go wrong if you follow it to the letter. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Wood 4 Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Hi All , That's good advice from Danny, I have studied Brian's designs for the last 40 years since my first build of his Mk 9 which with his first Hurricane were pre retract days with fixed under carts, the first designs all featured the 1/4" square framework with the formers fixed on the outside, he then progressed the the later 8 3" Spit which has sheet sides, one for the future I have all the bits 😄👍 enjoy your P47 build ! !I Take weight out where you can, they do end up heavy if your not careful. Regards Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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