Back after 11 years - need advice

[Dubcat]

Hi, when my twins were born I simply didn’t have time to fly. Now they are 11 I have a little more time and would love to return to flying. I was flying an IC super appeared 40 and electric was just coming in when I quit. While I love the sound of IC, it seems electric is the way to go now! Will be more convenient at least.

Ive got my eye on an Acro Wot. I’ve no idea what transmitter to buy (my old jr is 35mhz). Need recommendations on something that I can keep as I progress but that won’t require me to remortgage my house. Also need recommendations for a power train for the Acro Wot - something that will give me a reasonable flight time and with enough power to last me as my skills improve.

Hope you can help,

Dub!

[Dubcat]

ps the above post was meant to say "I was flying a super sportster 40" 

pps I am also considering the Black Horse Speed Air - any views on whether im better off getting that or the Acro Wot?

 

Edited By Dubcat on 21/07/2020 13:59:51

[Cuban8]

Both of the models that you mention have proven reputations, so providing that you were a reasonably accomplished flyer when you packed up eleven years ago, just like riding a bike, you never really forget - but take it easy for the first few flights. I assume your previous model was the Great Planes Super Sportster, low wing aerobatic job? If you could fly that OK then I doubt if you'll have too much trouble getting back into the groove.

Whilst not particularly agreeing with your "electric is the way to go now" comment, plenty of  life left in IC I reckon, but should your circumstances mean that 'leccy is advantageous then there's no reason why it shouldn't work for you. As for an electric setup, give 4-Max a go **LINK**

I don't use them myself as I design my own electric systems, but I understand that their reputation for help and assistance in specifying electric power outfits is excellent.

As for radio, TBH what ever takes your fancy and looks good and is nice in the hand. Go for at least an eight channel set rather than anything smaller to future proof things a bit, but it depends on your budget. I've been flying Spektrum for over ten years and Futaba 35 meg before that - both are excellent brands but quite a bit dearer than the other budget names that are around.

Good luck and welcome back.

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 21/07/2020 14:30:18

[Shaun Walsh]

I guess the question is "how rusty are you" ? Would you be better starting again with a WOT 4 or are you confident enough to go straight to the Acro WOT?

Power train, battery, servos etc here:

**LINK**

Regarding the radio, a number of people I know still fly 35MHz so it's not completely redundant, how confident are you that your current equipment will be reliable after 11 years? Do you intend to join a local club, if so, see what equipment the majority fly with, its easier to get advice from people who have used a brand for some time.

Welcome back.

[Dubcat]

You've got me thinking Shaun - maybe I should start out with a wot 4. I'm probably very very rusty.

You've also got me thinking Cuban8 - I'm attracted by the cleanliness of electric as I have memories of cleaning my plane down after every flight with IC. However, IC has the sound and the smell and the unlimited flight time. I'll have a think. I just assumed that everyone had moved over to IC now.

I will rejoin my old club hopefully. I would never think of flying without support of a club and from a legit flying field.

[EarlyBird]

"I just assumed that everyone had moved over to IC now."

Do you mean electric?

Steve

[MattyB]

Posted by Dubcat on 21/07/2020 16:07:01:

You've got me thinking Shaun - maybe I should start out with a wot 4. I'm probably very very rusty.

If you do choose to go with electric version they tend to be lighter loaded, so there is really nothing to fear in an Acrowot - the foamie version in particular is very easy to handle, though not the best made aircraft in the world. I have personally never understood this feeling that aileron models that are shoulder wing are easier/safer than low wingers; I've flown good and bad handling versions of both, and can see no discernible pattern other than the worst ones always tended to have higher wing loadings and/or were less accurately built.

Posted by Dubcat on 21/07/2020 16:07:01:

You've also got me thinking Cuban8 - I'm attracted by the cleanliness of electric as I have memories of cleaning my plane down after every flight with IC. However, IC has the sound and the smell and the unlimited flight time. I'll have a think. I just assumed that everyone had moved over to IC electric now.

Whisper it quietly, but you don't have to do one or the other - lots of people have both! The convenience, light weight and low noise of electric is difficult to beat at the smaller sizes (many models are designed around the cheap and cheerful 3S 2200 packs), but move up in size and IC is back in the game, particularly if you have a dedicated private flying site. If I were you I would go to your local club, see what they fly and then make your decision. If you do go electric the Foam-e Acrowot, Max Thrust Riot or Ruckus or (left field) maybe an e-glider like the Volantex Phoenix 2000 or Mpx Easyglider would be good first models to get your eye in.

[Dubcat]

Steve - apologies, yes I meant electric.

MattyB - what is better about the foam-e vs the regular ARTF one? I was erring towards the ARTF as i figured it might be a bit more repairable than a foam-e. My dream is to get a big petrol powered scale plane one day but I was thinking electric may be a bit easier in the early days

[Denis Watkins]

Posted by Dubcat on 21/07/2020 16:42:16:

Steve - apologies, yes I meant electric.

MattyB - what is better about the foam-e vs the regular ARTF one? I was erring towards the ARTF as i figured it might be a bit more repairable than a foam-e. My dream is to get a big petrol powered scale plane one day but I was thinking electric may be a bit easier in the early days

Electric is not an easy option at all Dub, and requires full attention, though

Electric is the clean option

[john davidson 1]

A foamie is much more ding proof than a balsa built up ARTF and in a more severe crash a foamie breaks into glueable chunks unlike balsa which is usually matchwood , I would go for a Wot 4 e , great flyer

[EarlyBird]

No need to apologise Dub.

My terse reply was simply due me being unable to put a comprehensive reply together as MattyB did.

I second MattB most do both.

They fly small electric and big IC.

Steve

[Cuban8]

I agree. From what I see from my two clubs and my own MO, smaller convenience models do tend to be electric and larger stuff will go with glow or petrol. There was a dabbling with big electrics i.e 8+ cells & 2 KW large scale models in my clubs but this seems to have run its course because of cost, charging, and dare I say it......a certain unfulfilling experience from the sound of electric compared to a fourstroke. A bit like electric motorsport, either on four or two wheels to my lug 'oles.

[Dubcat]

Just been watching some acro wot flights on YouTube Cuban8 and I have to say the sound of the IC ones got my blood going in a way that the electric ones didn't. Especially the XL with a big 4 stroke petrol engine in it

[MattyB]

Posted by Dubcat on 21/07/2020 16:42:16:

Steve - apologies, yes I meant electric.

MattyB - what is better about the foam-e vs the regular ARTF one? I was erring towards the ARTF as i figured it might be a bit more repairable than a foam-e. My dream is to get a big petrol powered scale plane one day but I was thinking electric may be a bit easier in the early days

As John says the Foam-e is far easier to repair if you make an error (as you said you may be somewhat rusty). They can also be ready to fly in an hour or two out of the box and make no noise, meaning you can start getting your eye back in more or less immediately for that large petrol model in the future.

If you prefer IC though that can work just as well - just dig out one of your old IC models, recondition it and get down to your local club. Alternatively you could just get your eye in on their club trainer and then move directly to a larger, more complex IC or electric model. All options as possible, there is no definitive right or wrong.

Edited By MattyB on 21/07/2020 17:43:31

[gangster]

Electric or IC. You will get strong recommendations for both on here. I suggest that if you join a club you will see what the others are using. You will not go far wrong with either a wot4 or an acrowot. Whether or no you go for the foam or built up is your choice but going by your previous experience you may prefer the built up. I have had a kit built acrowot and now have an artf. Just bear in mind the initiall cost if you decide to go electric. An electric acrowot will require at a guess 700 watts minimum. To get that you will need at a minimum a 60 amp esc and 4s 3300 batteries. Just to add a bit more pain you will need at least 2 batteries and that will only give you 2 flights, unless you field charge and that takes an hour.
I went exclusive to electric for a while but now do both The mistake I made , well not a mistake , but a disadvantage with electric was I started with models needing 3s 3000 built a model that needed 3s2200 and then built a couple that needed 4s 3000 now when you want about 4 of each that is a lot of battery’s with glow it’s the same bottle of fuel Having said that a battery for an acrowot will

cost about the same as 2 gallons of 5%

it’s a big descision so don’t let people on here bully you by saying that their favourite is the only way to go

As for radio There is nothing wrong with 35 MHz it’s not obsolete and is probably no less safe than 2.4 especially now that fewer are using 35 so there will be less danger of someone switching on . Stored properly there should be nothing wrong with the old JR and probably better built than anything you can buy today just make sure the batteries are fine and there is no black lead corrosion

Anoth model to check out is the seagull challenger nice and light if you do decide on electric and a dream flier Welcome back

[Keith Miles 2]

 

Dubcat,

First consideration is your budget!

If money is tight, you might wish to build on what you already have e.g. radio gear, engine(s), starting accessories, and assuming that they are in good condition. If you have those, all that you might then need is a suitable model to match and a bottle of fuel while you get back into the groove. A Wot4 ARTF would be hard to beat in this respect as a good all-rounder for a 40/46 power and high wing is probably better when it comes to less than perfect landings, given the added wing tip ground clearance! So, utilising existing gear, you might be up and running for about £150!

Alternatively, for a “cheap” intro into electric, the virtually ready-built “Plug and Play” Max Thrust Riot is well worth considering at around the same price BUT you will then need to factor in the cost of a Lipo charger and, for convenience, three or four Lipo batteries, so at least another £100 or so for decent budget items.

Both models have the usual constructional “niggles” that you get with mass production but I found, in both cases, that these are fairly easy to overcome or correct, if annoying.

My criticism of the Riot (the subject of another thread!) is mainly about the marketing hype. That said it flies well enough judged in its own right.

The “Electric versus IC” debate is an old one and continues unabated!

In essence, electric is quieter, cleaner and simpler to operate but, arguably, initially more expensive to begin with only becoming relatively cheaper over time. It’s biggest disadvantages are relatively shorter flight times compared to IC and the possible need, for convenience, to have three or four charged batteries of different specifications (capacity and voltage) for each size of model that you might own!

IC, on the other hand, might only require one common bottle of fuel for at least a full day’s flying with no waiting around for batteries to charge, assuming that you even have a charging facility at the field be it, mains power, a portable generator or one or two leisure batteries! With electric, once your four batteries are flat (about 30 minutes total flying time, on average, unless it’s a powered glider!), you’re done, unless or until you can recharge them.

With electric, if you continue, you will soon become acquainted with the vast array of components, the need to ensure correct matching and the probable eventual need to acquire basic soldering skills. It’s a whole new world!

Some of us “Luddites” still prefer IC, for all manner of reasons but, sadly, new two-stroke and four-stroke glow engines are becoming increasingly scarce and the IC market is shifting towards petrol, so you need to bear that in mind as well if you need to buy an engine.

Good to see that you are looking to join a club!

Finally, as for radio gear, even entry level modern 2.4 GHz Transmitters (less than £100) have features that make setting up a model much easier e.g. servo center and travel adjustment is very useful, especially for throttles!

Edited By Keith Miles 2 on 21/07/2020 20:47:13

[Keith Miles 2]

Dubcat, ignore my comment “once your four batteries are flat....”.

I should have said “discharged to a safe level” as it’s not good to completely flatten any flight battery (for obvious reasons!) but especially Lipos which require a little more caution and care, especially if you want them to last a reasonable length of time and to offset the ongoing cost of glow fuel!

I would also echo the recommendation to look at the “4-Max” website for comprehensive help in getting your head around electric flight, the components involved and an idea of costs. Other sites are also available, of course!

Edited By Keith Miles 2 on 22/07/2020 12:51:19

[perttime]

IC vs electric is very much a personal preference.

The Electronic Speed Control will take care of not discharging the batteries too much. Typically, it puts you on low power, or cuts completely and then lets you recover enough power to limp to a landing.

You can leave a pack charging, while you fly on your other pack(s).

... There is something to the sound of a BIG multi-cylinder four-stroke ....

[Keith Miles 2]

Posted by perttime on 22/07/2020 13:51:39:

IC vs electric is very much a personal preference.

The Electronic Speed Control will take care of not discharging the batteries too much. Typically, it puts you on low power, or cuts completely and then lets you recover enough power to limp to a landing.

You can leave a pack charging, while you fly on your other pack(s).

... There is something to the sound of a BIG multi-cylinder four-stroke ....

Bearing in mind that we’re advising a newcomer to electric flight.....

Agree on points 1 and 2.

On point 3, as previously mentioned, you need a means of field charging which might mean purchasing (or borrowing) additional appropriate equipment if there is no mains supply at the field. Charging from one’s vehicle car battery, whilst feasible, has limitations as well as safety considerations!

In Dubcat’s case, he might, depending on what he already has, be able to get started flying again for about £150 or so and be able to fly all day with one bottle of fuel. Going electric, on the other hand will cost at least twice that depending on how many Lipo batteries he chooses to buy in order to minimise or avoid any recharging issues at the field and maximise the number of flights per session.

There is no avoiding the fact that for each 5-10 minutes of electric flight of your average model (other than powered gliders) a one hour (preferable) recharge is required. So, the greater the number of batteries one has, the greater the convenience (and initial expense) and vice-versa.

And I totally agree on point 4 but I can’t afford one of those!

[Keith Miles 2]

Correction to previous post!

I should have said, in my example, not “at least twice as much” but rather about £100 more, which would be the approximate price of four or five lower priced 3s 2700 batteries (as for the Riot) and a decent budget/entry level AC/DC Lipo charger.

Edited By Keith Miles 2 on 22/07/2020 18:38:47

[Dubcat]

I’ve checked and there is no means of field charging in place - I’m thinking I will stick with ic! I managed to stop the sale of my Great Plane super sportster 40. The plan now is to ask the club if I can get my eye back in with the club trainer and then fly that super sportster

[Keith Miles 2]

Posted by Dubcat on 27/07/2020 19:50:06:

I’ve checked and there is no means of field charging in place - I’m thinking I will stick with ic! I managed to stop the sale of my Great Plane super sportster 40. The plan now is to ask the club if I can get my eye back in with the club trainer and then fly that super sportster

Sounds like a plan, especially if you already have enough existing kit, in working condition, for IC to get you started again and all that you need to buy is a bottle of fuel!

The first thing, in fact, that I would then be looking to spend money on, if anything, would be 2.4Ghz radio. 4-channel would probably be an adequate low cost option to begin with unless you want some early future proofing to cover flaps, retracts etc. and are willing to spend a bit more money.

After that, and in due course, you can then decide whether or not to stick with IC, convert to EP, or do both.

Edited By Keith Miles 2 on 28/07/2020 00:18:39