Matt fuel proofer

[Piers Acland]

Dear all,

 

Does anyone have any advice about matt fuel proofer (for glow)?  What about the Aerokote "Make it Matt" product - is that any good?

 

Kind Regards

 

Piers

[Jon H]

it all depends what you are spraying over the top of. I tend to paint with enamels so i have to shy away from anything with acetone/cellulose thinner as a solvent ? 

 

I have got away with spraying cellulose thinned epoxy over my enamels, but its time consuming and easy to screw up. Im just going to use the guild enamel fuel proofer for now. The trick is to let it really dry, like well over a month, before getting it all oily. 

[Tim Flyer]

As Jon says it works but using it on top of enamels comes with risk as if you apply it thickly or the enamel isn’t really solid it will bubble up and ruin. The only way round that is super thin flash coat application allowing very quick drying (solvent evaporation). Even then there is some risk so try a small area first! 

 

Aerokote is much better on cellulose paints however those are hard to obtain these days due to their nasty solvent. 
 

The simple solution is using enamel paints like Guild and living with their slightly lesser fuel proofing . I’m going to use enamel on my latest project but might just use Aerokote around the fuel filler /vent underneath the cowl where fuel may splash. I wouldn’t risk it on a large area and risk bubbling up and re-painting . 

[Andy Stephenson]

2 hours ago, Jon - Laser Engines said:

... Im just going to use the guild enamel fuel proofer for now. The trick is to let it really dry, like well over a month, before getting it all oily. 

Jon,

When marketed under the Flair Spectrum name I found that the clear fuel proofer was less fuelproof than the paint colours. It just went gooey and rubbed off off. I suggest you try a test piece or on a model you don't care about first.

The only truly fuelproof coating is a two part one.

[Jon H]

Some years ago i painted an engine test stand up with spectrum fuel proofer and then for some reason never used it. It sat on the window still at work for ages, like a year or more and when it came time to throw it away i was surprised just how tough the fuel proofer had become. 

 

Although enamel fuel proofers have their limitations, i really suspect that most of us dont leave them to dry for long enough and that is part of the problem. Certainly my solarlac painted stampe was not fully dry for probably 3 months after painting, and in my recent investigation of guitar painting they always come back with waiting at least 3 weeks for lacquer to dry to the point where it can be polished up. 

 

Now the weather is improving i hope to slap some fuel proofer on my Hurricane and then probably fly it around may time. The weather should be better by then, hopefully we will not be diseased any more and allowed out, and i need to inspect and test fly all my other planes before getting into a new one. With a couple of moths drying time hopefully the fuel proofer will do a decent job 

[Ron Gray]

Several thin coats of Clearcoat seem to go on OK to most painted surfaces including enamel, it can be matted down with additive.

[Bob Cotsford]

Flair/Guild made two clear lacquers, Gloss Clear and Clear Fuelproofer.  The one marketed as fuelproofer had a particularly toxic smell to it.  As Andy stated, it was far from fuelproof and was prone to turning rubbery and separating from the colour layers it was supposed to protect even with a mild 5% fuel. 

Oddly the Gloss Clear was reasonably resistant to glow!

Clearcoat with a week to cure was/is in a different (ie better) class.

[Andy Stephenson]

Actually I was talking about the gloss version so if the matt stuff is worse then avoid like the plague.

[Jon H]

3 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

Several thin coats of Clearcoat seem to go on OK to most painted surfaces including enamel, it can be matted down with additive.

 

cant get clearcoat any more. RIP Solarfilm 

 

On the one hand its a shame, as now its finally cured fully it seems to be holding up well on the stampe, but equally it was awful stuff to spray so it too was far from ideal

[Ron Gray]

 

You can still get Clearcoat, you just have to arrange collection as they won't deliver. - £7.10 for 110ml. As for spraying, I haven't found that to be a problem.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Ron Gray

[Bob Cotsford]

1 hour ago, Andy Stephenson said:

Actually I was talking about the gloss version so if the matt stuff is worse then avoid like the plague.

Andy, they did a clear 'fuelproofer' in satin and gloss, both rubbish IMHO, but they also did a 'Gloss Clear' which smelt more like a normal poly paint and was quite good as a proofer for the 5% fuels that I used.  It also stayed crystal clear with no yellowing - at least for the life of the models I used it on!

[Andy Stephenson]

This begs the question why did they market an inferior product when they had one that was better all ways round.

[Bob Cotsford]

Why did Flair do many of the things that they did? 

I've just remembered the last model I used Flair paints on, an Eros.  I did the fuselage in Flair yellow rattle cans.  The first can set ok, but the next can that I tried wouldn't dry.  Flair did give me more cans to try (their HQ was only 30 minutes away from me) but these were no better.  As a last roll of the dice before trying to wash the fuselage of the wet paint I tried putting a coat of the clear on top in the hope that it would act as a catalyst.  It worked, kept it's colour and proved fuel proof.

After that I kept well clear of Flair/Spectra/Guild paints until I stopped flying glo powered models.

[Jon H]

In fairness to flair, the product would only have been as good as the manufacturer could be bothered to make it. Variations in colour, putting matt labels on gloss products, stuff that wont dry etc are not really flair's fault. However, when i called to complain that my matt fuel proofer was in fact gloss the response of 'oh, yea that can happen sometimes...i can send you some matt, its only £5 a tin plus post' was not exactly the response i was looking for, and that is their problem. 

 

Anyway my ESM P39 is finished in the matt that was gloss and then matt fuel proofer, is doing ok after probably 8 years now. One or two bits have been resprayed, but that was mostly due to modifications and physical damage. 

[Solly]

Over the years I've tried many proofers, gloss and matt. Including the Flair products, Aerokote etc. The only one I've found to be 100% proof, including against hot exhaust residues, is KlassKote, I now use this on all my models both gloss and satin,( I don't think they do a matt but the satin looks good). Best sprayed with a good mask! I've also heard that Oracolor clear laquer is good but have not tried it.

[Andy Stephenson]

I believe that KlassKote is the one I read about that is has a different formulation in the US from UK/Europe. The difference being that the US version has an anti-yellowing agent which is classed as dangerous over here and therefore is left out of the mix.

[Piers Acland]

Thanks all for your input.  Looks like there is no perfect solution!  I will probably give the guild enamel proofer a go and leave it for a couple of months to fully cure as Jon suggests.

[Jon H]

I would use klasscote, but i cant get confirmation that it will not eat my enamels and its too expensive to take a punt on and give it a try, only to find its no good ? 

[Ron Gray]

At the risk of repeating myself, Clearcoat works!

[Piers Acland]

Apologies Ron, but I couldn't find Clearcoat anywhere online (at least not in a form that seemed to be for model aeroplanes).  I'm sure it's just me but if there is something out there, I will certainly give it a try.

 

Kind Regards

 

Piers 

 

 

[Andy Stephenson]

I only know "clearcote" as a generic term used by car restorers to put the final gloss over the base coat paint colour.

 

If it is an actual product name, where does it come from?

 

A.

[Jon H]

CLearcoat was a solarfilm product and i thought it died with them along with the rest of their paint range. If Ron has a source then fair enough. 

 

I used it on my stampe and found it the most awful stuff to spray. It also stayed tacky for months (not tacky to touch, but if you left the wings touching each other in storage they would glue themselves together after a day or so) and this was really annoying. 

 

Not its finally gone off it seems to handle the oil fine, its just not fun to use and eats enamel 

[John Stainforth]

4 hours ago, Jon - Laser Engines said:

I would use klasscote, but i cant get confirmation that it will not eat my enamels and its too expensive to take a punt on and give it a try, only to find its no good ? 

KlassKote is superb, but it is aggressive and probably will eat your enamels. Phil Clark does reckon it is possible to spray KlassKote on top of enamels, if this is done with a very light spray coat and the enamels have been left to harden for many days. But I did not manage to do that successfully on enamel lettering, probably because I don't have Phil's years of experience doing that. When I screwed up my enamels, it was on a separate test patch, thank goodness. I think the golden rule is to always test every single new paint combination on a test patch, before committing to a plane! On my next plane, I think I will use KlassKote right through, even if it is expensive - I think it is worth it.

[Solly]

Good advice from Phil Clark. I use enamels most of the time and leave the painted parts on my central heating boiler for about a week, until there is no smell detectable. Then as Phil says, a thin first coat followed by normal applications. I always use matt enamels, never gloss. It works for me.

[Ron Gray]

Just to clear the Clearcoat situation up. Solarfilm are still in existence, they haven’t gone bust and that is where you will get Clearcoat from. They will not deliver do you have to make your own arrangements for collection. 
Regarding spraying it, I have had no problems spraying it but I do thin it more than they recommend and do spray it on in mist coats, doing it that way it touch dries really quickly and I can spray another coat on the airframe within an hour. I aim to give an airframe a minimum of 2 coats but minimum of 3 around the cowl or near an exhaust and around filler  pipes. Spraying it on too thick can result in the paint finish pickling, I had this happen on my LA-7 cowl so I just let it dry (1 day ) then sanded it back, repainted it then thin Clearcoat after 2 or 3 days.

 

I think that the problem most people get when spraying is applying it too thick and maybe incorrectly thinned, that of course also applies to most spraying!

Edited February 26, 2021 by Ron Gray