HD drive installation problem on desk-top PC

[Geoff S]

I've just bought a new PC. It's a refurbished HP EliteDesk 800 G1 Tower which originally had (I assume) Win 8 installed but came with Win10 on a 1 tb HD. 

 

After certifying the Win10 s/w supplied I've replaced the HD with the 2 TB one from my old PC which has a fully updated Win10 operating system(originally the free download from Microsoft) as well as all my programs/data etc installed.  It works perfectly and has 3 partitions - one for program installation (ie C) and another 2 called User (D) which has my data and Linux (E) which I originally set up in an abortive attempt to install a Linux OS.

 

A few months ago I bought a 250gb SSD as an experiment and successfully installed it in my old PC.  I use it as a data back-up. I also installed all my RealFlight 9.5 s/w on it as I thought it would be faster. 

 

I've put the SSD drive in my new PC but I'm having huge difficulties in getting the PC to 'see' it.  The BIOS defaults to setting up the SATA interface as AHCI with IDE and RAID as alternatives.  If I change to IDE, the system won't boot properly so resetting to the default AHCI is needed.  Then the PC boots OK and, moreover, now my SSD drive works perfectly!  However, if I switch off, the next time I boot up, the SSD drive has disappeared!

 

Obviously, it's not a show stopper but never the less very annoying and puzzling.  It's obviously something to do with SATA set up but what?  I'm very out of date technically (I've been retired since 1995) and in any case I didn't delve much into IBM PCs other than using them (Win3.1).  All my s/w was written in Motorola 68xx assembler or a bit of 'C' to drive h/w I'd designed so I'm not a total dummy but I'd appreciate a little help from someone a bit more current.

 

 

[Gary Manuel]

Hi Geoff.

 

Not sure about your problem getting the PC to see your SSD, but you really ought to be installing Windows on this drive. The speed difference between HDD and SSD, especially boot up speed is amazing.

I use my SSD as system drive and for any speed critical programs. The remainder goes on the HDD.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Gary Manuel

[Jon H]

Is it vanishing from the BIOS or is it windows thats not seeing it? It sounds like BIOS from your description

[Geoff S]

No, it vanishes from the BIOS as well.  Oddly enough, I downloaded the latest version of the HP Support Assistant which meant I had to Restart the PC (as opposed to Shut Down and then switch on to reboot) and SSD drive re-appeared!   However, it promptly disappeared again when I experimentally Shut Down and re-booted!

 

Gary:  That had occurred to me, too but, as it's working OK as it is, I haven't bothered.

[Gary Manuel]

Geoff,

Have you got the latest BIOS installed for your system?

It sounds like a BIOS problem to me because of what you said about restart vs reboot. I believe that BIOS is loaded during Power-On Self Test (POST), which doesn't run during a restart.

Also, when you have changed the settings in your BIOS, are you saving the setting properly before exiting?

 

PS, I'm not an expert in this, but have built several PC's over the years.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Gary Manuel

[Geoff S]

I think it's the latest BIOS.  In my research I've come across a method for changing the way SATA is set up.  Apparently it should be set before the OS system is installed or the PC won't boot  (as I've discovered).  A way out is to edit the register and a method is offered. Unfortunately, my register doesn't seem to have exactly the same files as the website cites and I'm very nervous about messing with the register - you can do a LOT of damage there!

 

I don't have any Windows 10 media so reinstalling from scratch isn't all that easy and the last thing I want to do is lose all the program s/w in the process.  Anyway, it's keeping me amused as well as frustrated. 

[Jon H]

If its missing from the BIOS i would look at all the simple stuff first. Clean the SATA ports, try another SATA cable, clean the power plug from the psu etc. Then, as Gary suggests, make sure you save your BIOS changes and see if you can rearrange the boot order priority. Its possible its still being detected but the system is trying to boot from another drive. 

 

Getting hold of w10 installation media is easy enough. Google windows media creation tool and go from there. you can burn to a dvd or use a usb drive. 

[Geoff S]

I'm 99% sure there's no problem with either the power or SATA connections.  In fact, at the moment, the drive is working but I'm sure it won't be after I've Shut Down and rebooted.

 

By changing the SATA setting and restarting in Safe mode using this method I've reset the SATA to IDE (the SSD worked until re-boot);  RAID (didn't work at all); and back to AHCI, where I am now.  It's a real puzzle.

 

I also went through the same process with the original HD and the SSD was never 'seen'. 

 

Fortunately I have my data and a System Image of drive C backed up on a USB back-up hard drive so if I lose everything there's a route back, albeit a tedious one.

 

btw I can recommend a back-up program called Synchredible .  It is easily set up to back up large files but only the new data eg large photo files are backed up quickly because it only adds the new photos.  It's free for private use.

[Alex Ferguson 2]

It might show whether a BIOS problem or not. Burn a Linux Mint iso to a spare USB stick and boot up with that. You will need to go to the BIOS and tell it the first boot item is the USB stick. Once booted, can all disks be seen?

 

If they can it tends to say not a BIOS problem. If they can't all be seen it might mean anything, BIOS or system. It certainly won't break anything but might indicate something.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I reloaded W10 onto a new SSD in my laptop from the M$ website. I think they have my motherboard ID on record as it didn’t require any serial number during the process. Very painless...
 

It is so much faster now - especially on boot up...which is a blessing as I can’t get to the bottom of why it won’t sleep or hibernate unless it hasn’t been connected to the external PSU at any time since a cold boot. Don’t you just love Windows!

[Geoff S]

As expected my SSD (drive H) disappeared after I switched off and re-booted, so the mystery remains unsolved.  I've found loads of 'solutions' on line but none of them describe my problem.  A lot of them suggest that the drive isn't formatted or that the cables or the drive itself are faulty but that's clearly not the case because I can access it sometimes but a reboot always loses it. 

 

I tried the disk management s/w and there's a shadow of my drive listed in that it identifies a 250gb drive but indicates it's not present and won't allow it to be enabled.  It really is frustrating.

[Denis Watkins]

Long shot Geoff

Try adding it to your Network

Like you would with other hardware in the house

[Gary Manuel]

Running out of ideas Geoff. Bit of a mystery.

Only things I can think of are that when you have it working, try updating the SSD drivers from Device Manager. Also try reformatting it, ideally as a bootable drive with your Windows operating system on it.

[Gary Manuel]

Geoff,

 

Does this look familiar? (from here: https://superuser.com/questions/4020/why-should-i-choose-or-not-ahci-over-ide-in-my-pcs-bios-settings )

 

Or this (from the same link)

 

It looks to me like your OS has been set up with the drive in IDE mode, but you only have boot drivers in for AHCI (or vice versa). This makes sense as you moved the system drive from another older PC. AHCI has much better performance than IDE (as long as all hardware supports AHCI). I'd therefore suggest as I did before that you try to install your Windows Operating System onto your SSD with it in AHCI mode.

 

This step by step guide on transferring your OS onto SSD might help.

https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/149969-ssd-install-transfer-operating-system.html

 

Good Luck!

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Gary Manuel

[Geoff S]

Thanks for that, Gary. 

 

The strange thing is that, even using the supplied HD with W10 preinstalled, I get the same problem.  I've had the SDD working several times but it never survives a reboot!  I've even re-formatted it - it was just being used for back-up and it was itself backed up on my external drive anyway so I wasn't too bothered about losing the data. 

 

I was trying to set up Firefox on the new drive and saved the back-up on a thumb drive. It was plugged in when I booted and suddenly I was into a Linux Mint installation. I then realised I'd saved a Linux system on the drive ? some time in the past.  So I went ahead and installed Linux Mint with the option of booting Windows.  So I've been playing with that.  The trouble with Linux is that while it happily runs Firefox it won't allow me to import my bookmarks and passwords etc from the Windows version I've been using for years, updating as I went.

 

I suppose it makes a change from balsa bashing ?

[Alex Ferguson 2]

6 hours ago, Geoff S said:

The trouble with Linux is that while it happily runs Firefox it won't allow me to import my bookmarks and passwords etc from the Windows version I've been using for years, updating as I went.

Depending on the browser you use in Windows, usually you can export the bookmarks in a file and import them to Firefox on Linux. Note I said "usually". I'm fairly sure I've done it a few times before. You would of course have to do it in Windows and then save the file somewhere, USB stick or .....

[Geoff S]

Thanks, Alex.  I've been using MozBackup to save all my Mozilla-based data which gives a little security and a warm feeling that the  myriad passwords we seem to need even for trivial needs are saved for pain-free use.  Having been playing with microprocessors long before there were IBM PCs I'm a bit anal about my data storage architecture and always set up my own file structure - I like to know where my data are stored - rather than relying on the OS to hide it away somewhere but I've no idea where the Firefox bookmarks etc are saved.  I'll look into that.

 

I've learned a lot in the past week - unfortunately not enough to solve my little problem ?

[Alex Ferguson 2]

Passwords - I do to a spreadsheet, stored on a backup disk and it can be printed and stored. A copy off site would bypass a fire. No virus could corrupt the paper, only mice or woodworms to worry about. Then again, you could chip them as runes in rock for perpetuity....?

 

When entering a new password, making one up, I'll type in in Note Book/Text Editor or some-such text only, then copy and paste, especially when it has to be put in twice and all you see are black dots. An existing password to be re-entered, you can see if you have typed it correctly before pasting it.

[Geoff S]

I thought an update on my PC difficulties might be in order.  After all my struggles, it turns out (I hope) a change of SATA cable (from the SSD to the motherboard) seems to have cured the problem. It surprises me because it was working sometimes and all the time in my old PC.  Just reinforces a lesson I learned many years ago (or should have ) always to try the simple things first - like 'is it switched on?' or 'is there power'?

 

I may try loading the OS onto the SSD once I'm sure about its viability.

 

I also found out how to move my bookmarks and passwords from one Firefox installation to another now MosBackup no longer works with the current version.  There's a file called Profiles which you can copy and replace.  I used Synchredible to transfer the files and it all works.  There's an explanation on the Mozilla website (search for MozBackup).

 

btw my wife saves a lot of her passwords on paper but written in Greg shorthand, which even few shorthand writers use, so it's quite secure.

 

Geoff

[Gary Manuel]

6 minutes ago, Geoff S said:

......

I may try loading the OS onto the SSD once I'm sure about its viability.

......

 

Do it. You won't regret it and neither will your super-fast-booting PC.

 

Another reason apart from speed that you should do it is that SSDs have a limited number of read/write cycles. They are not meant for writing data which regularly changes. This is the job of the HDD.

 

What I do is put my OS and time critical programs (video / audio editing / flight sim etc) on the SSD and non time critical stuff on the HDD (program data, downloads, video files and pretty much everything else).