Flair Puppeteer question

[michael brigg]

hi there can anybody help i have a flair puppeteer  it came to me with very little plans ,so i  built it without only problem is i don't have the dimensions of the wing struts, i don't suppose any body has a picture including dimensions to help me  

 

[kevin b]

flair puppeteer body.pdf flair puppeteer wing.pdf

[michael brigg]

39 minutes ago, kevin b said:

flair puppeteer body.pdf 964.07 kB · 4 downloads flair puppeteer wing.pdf 826.27 kB · 5 downloads

thank you very much i will try to print hopefully it will be to scale regards michael

[stu knowles]

The struts on a Pupp' are largey decorative.  Fix the wings at the centre section.  Check and rectify any warps with a bit of heat and a twist and then make the struts fit the gap.

 

Unless you have a car that will take it in one piece, make the struts quick fix, don't use nuts and bolts as per plan.  It takes for too long to rig and de rig which completely destroys the pleasure of what is the best by far of all the Flair Scouts.  Been there and done that.

[Ace]

Have see a Pup where the Fuz splits just behind the wings making assembly simpler and transport/storage far more practical by being able to leave the wing section as one unit.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Ace

[leccyflyer]

Ace - my pal Derek's Puppeteer is set up like that, to simplify transport and rigging at the field. I posted a picture here some time ago, but I'm getting a Bad Gateway error when I try to access it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ace]

I believe it was done after he saw this You Tube video which was later posted on here by @ jon wagg earlier this year.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Ace

[Cuban8]

I've flown a number of Puppeteers for friends back in the day and they are really nice models providing that they are rigged correctly.  They will fly with all sorts of errors present (tell me about it!) and some builders accept the faults and manage with them. However, time spent with care on adjustment of the wing rigging, elimination of warps etc really  pays dividends and will turn an OK flyer into an excellent one. Eyeballing works to a certain extent, but a home made incidence gauge or two is very useful and gives a beter understanding of what's going on and what (if any) corrective measures might be needed. Dead easy to make out of scrap - my posh one 😄 has a digital inclinometer from Ebay and has been a real boon over the years.

Some will say it's OTT - build accurately to the plan and you shouldn't have a problem - maybe so, but errors do creep in - warps appear because of bad storage or whatever. True for most bipes.

Funnily enough, I was talking to one of our club's very best builders yesterday at the BMFA record attempt, about Flair Models. His reputation is well known locally and is often commissioned by others to take on lengthy builds or perform complex repairs. The guy is both artisan and engineer rolled into one. He'd built a Flair SE5 many years ago and the model turned out to be a pig . After some close examination, he concluded that the top wing incidence was incorrect (too little or maybe slightly negative, he couldn't recall which after so many years) and simply packing up the front effected a cure. No way was the model built incorrectly, so clearly there was a fault somewhere with the supplied parts or whatever, and was worthy of the manufacturer checking to see. Just helpful customer feedback and not an irate complaint!

He spoke to Mr Flair to let him know of his findings and was curtly told that wrong parts or any sort of manufacturing error was impossible, and he'd built the model carelessly and that was that.

Well, there you go.

[michael brigg]

On 15/05/2023 at 08:28, stu knowles said:

The struts on a Pupp' are largey decorative.  Fix the wings at the centre section.  Check and rectify any warps with a bit of heat and a twist and then make the struts fit the gap.

 

Unless you have a car that will take it in one piece, make the struts quick fix, don't use nuts and bolts as per plan.  It takes for too long to rig and de rig which completely destroys the pleasure of what is the best by far of all the Flair Scouts.  Been there and done that.

thanks i will take all that onboard 

[michael brigg]

On 15/05/2023 at 08:44, Ace said:

Have see a Pup where the Fuz splits just behind the wings making assembly simpler and transport/storage far more practical by being able to leave the wing section as one unit.

hi yes I've seen the utube vid, it will fit in my car fully built i up just want to see it fly first maybe its something to do later if i find it a pain to transport 

[michael brigg]

On 15/05/2023 at 09:01, leccyflyer said:

Ace - my pal Derek's Puppeteer is set up like that, to simplify transport and rigging at the field. I posted a picture here some time ago, but I'm getting a Bad Gateway error when I try to access it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 15/05/2023 at 10:29, Cuban8 said:

I've flown a number of Puppeteers for friends back in the day and they are really nice models providing that they are rigged correctly.  They will fly with all sorts of errors present (tell me about it!) and some builders accept the faults and manage with them. However, time spent with care on adjustment of the wing rigging, elimination of warps etc really  pays dividends and will turn an OK flyer into an excellent one. Eyeballing works to a certain extent, but a home made incidence gauge or two is very useful and gives a beter understanding of what's going on and what (if any) corrective measures might be needed. Dead easy to make out of scrap - my posh one 😄 has a digital inclinometer from Ebay and has been a real boon over the years.

Some will say it's OTT - build accurately to the plan and you shouldn't have a problem - maybe so, but errors do creep in - warps appear because of bad storage or whatever. True for most bipes.

Funnily enough, I was talking to one of our club's very best builders yesterday at the BMFA record attempt, about Flair Models. His reputation is well known locally and is often commissioned by others to take on lengthy builds or perform complex repairs. The guy is both artisan and engineer rolled into one. He'd built a Flair SE5 many years ago and the model turned out to be a pig . After some close examination, he concluded that the top wing incidence was incorrect (too little or maybe slightly negative, he couldn't recall which after so many years) and simply packing up the front effected a cure. No way was the model built incorrectly, so clearly there was a fault somewhere with the supplied parts or whatever, and was worthy of the manufacturer checking to see. Just helpful customer feedback and not an irate complaint!

He spoke to Mr Flair to let him know of his findings and was curtly told that wrong parts or any sort of manufacturing error was impossible, and he'd built the model carelessly and that was that.

Well, there you go.

hi thanks for info ,I'm going to make frame to check wings ,this is my first biplane I'm only building because i was given the kit partially built 

[Jon H]

My Dad taught me to fly using his flair pup as it was the only model he had at the time. Following advice he added more lead (a full extra pound) to the front as the c/g in the plan wasnt great. Having flown others since with the plan suggested c/g i have to admit i favour my Dad's revised c/g so maybe balance it a little more towards nose heavy than you normally would. You can always take it out again and unlike a WWII fighter it wont cause it any nose over problems. 

 

My other suggestion is not to over power the model. There is a trend towards fitting 70 4 strokes which, frankly, i think is barking mad. My Dad's example flew very well on 48 and later 52 4 stroke when the 48 snuffed it. I have flown examples using laser 70's and they were quite unpleasant as i was flying barely off idle and the slightest touch of throttle had the thing approaching warp speed. Contrary to popular belief you cant always 'just throttle back'. There comes a point where there engine is simply too big for the job. So, 50 4 stroke or equivalent alternative would be the way to go. 

 

My Dad's model is still more or less airworthy but hasnt flown in a decade or more. I am trying to encourage him to get it tarted up and come flying again so my flair Nieuport has a playmate!

[Andy48]

On 15/05/2023 at 08:28, stu knowles said:

The struts on a Pupp' are largey decorative.  Fix the wings at the centre section.  Check and rectify any warps with a bit of heat and a twist and then make the struts fit the gap.

 

Unless you have a car that will take it in one piece, make the struts quick fix, don't use nuts and bolts as per plan.  It takes for too long to rig and de rig which completely destroys the pleasure of what is the best by far of all the Flair Scouts.  Been there and done that.

I built my Pup with the fuselage splitting behind the cockpit. As mine is electric, the cowl complete with dummy motor, real motor, and ESC fold down and the battery is inserted from the front.  It works really well. I also added rigging wires made out of some thin metal wire. After the first couple trial flights I was amazed to find the the rigging wires had significantly stretched. I then used far stronger fishing line for the rigging.

As a result of this I would hardly say the struts and rigging are largely decorative.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Andy48