Building the Nijhuis Lysander

[Supermario]

Hi Geoff

Tony Nij. to make the draw simple and not to dificult to understand design

the stringers with only one line that corresponde to the axle of each stringer.

When the stringer 7 is between F7 and F4 there's no more stringers above, thats why the line became continuous, but is still the axle of the stringer and that is your dought.

You see better what you have to do if you see  the plan draw of F6 and watch 3mm balsa

IN-FILL, placed above the stringer n.7.

Better then my english I post a picture were I highlite with a pencil the line between stringer end sheeting for you to see.

I hope I can be helpful.

Click on image to see it greater

 

Jim

I'm glad you go in cruise speed with your building.

About hinges, there's no need to put pins if you glue them well. Many people put one pin just for security but I can tell you when a model breaks and we took out the acessories for other model, the hinges frequently get destroyed on trying to pic them because they are strongly glued.

If you want to put a pin there's nothing wrong with that and only you have to do is make the pin to pass throught the hinge, not necessary in a hole.

The advice I can give to you is put some oil in the axle of the hinge before you glue it.

The oil don't let the glue to penetrate the axle and garantee the hinge works well after gluying.

Continue with your good work as a builder and as a blog hostess.

 

PS- If you guys click in the picture of the details of the part where is the viewing hole, you can see that I put some strips of solartex in the fin to imitate the lines of the real plane that when painted I think they became more visible. Is one more scale foolish, as long as I continue having fun with this build.

Regards

Edited By Supermario on 10/02/2010 00:26:26

[Terry Whiting]

JIm,

 

Yes just chamfer the LE of both elevator halves,but. do not go chamfering ailerons or flaps as per elevator, as TN "top hinged" all wing control surfaces. My ailerons and flaps will be top hinged with strips of my covering, Solatex, which I much prefer for top hinging.

 

I have never seen the hinge cutting tool Geoff mentioned, but have seen a hinge centreing device, this enables you to mark dead centre for slot or dowl fitting hinges

 

As for hinge slot cutting tool, I made one from 6" of standard 32 tooth hacksaw blade, to this from scap balsa I made a handle, then  using my electric grind stone I ground the back of the blade down to a nice radius point.

Once I have marked the hinge position the ground point is inserted, then just saw enough to take the hinge.

 

I have made a few of these little saws all to the same profile, even one from a junior hacksaw blade which is a little gem when cuting ABS    

[Supermario]

Terry and Jim

The hinge tool that Geoff talk about is that in picture

About the shamfering and hinging of ailerons and flaps, to complet the

good explanation of Terry , look the picture because I done mine exactely per plan.

Like you Terry I prefer cover hinges, but if the model is covered with oracover or solarfilm.

If the model is to be painted I prefer use plastic hinges because I can paint wing , aileron and flaps separately and at last put all together.

Mário

 

[Terry Whiting]

Mario,

 

 Yes that is the hinge centre  guide I have seen. I made one vertually the same a few years ago from aluminium strip, it's still in use.

 I'm bit of a model tool gadget maker, one of my favourites I made is a pendulum wing

incident meter which must be 40 plus years old and still in use. It can give incidence to the nearest .25 degree.

Sorry, I'm getting a little carried away here.

 

As you rightly stated, if painting your method is prefered, but I have in the past tex covered and painted without a problem, mind you It was never with gloss paint only with  matt.       

 

  

[rookie jim]

Mario, terry

thanks once again for the very good advice .

 

Mario. looking at your picture i think i can see the hinge line above the aileron and wing.Am i correct? If so i was wondering how they are attached,  The plan says to use mylar hinges and the ones i have are just straight pieces of mylar and no metal hinge. did you use a different type?

 

i know i am getting a bit ahead of myself but i like to have some idea what i need to do in the next phase before i get there

 

jim

Edited By rookie jim on 11/02/2010 00:10:42

[Terry Whiting]

Hi Jim,

I can answer for Mario.

Yes they are proper pinned hinges used on aileron and flaps, and Mario used

Robart dowel hinges on rudder and elevator.

 

I use KAVAN, they have two sizes 20mm width, and  16mm. I would suggest the 16mm,

the 20mm I only use on 1/4 scale models.   DU-BRO make a similar hinge. 

 

When I  fit pin hinges for surface mounted, I build in the hinge blocks in both wing and aileron, then  mark my hinge positions. I cut the slot  1/16 (1.5mm) below the wing surface downward at about 45 degrees, the knuckle of the fitted hinge will then be level with the wing surface.

(this is where my mini saws are  very handy)

I then cut a piece 1/16" square (1.5mm)  and glue lengthwise between the hinges, once dry lightly sand to the level of the wing surface, this give a gap free ailerons and flaps.  

 

Alternatively you can notch the hinge knuckle into the wing and control surface.

 

I know many modeller swear by these mylar flat things, but personally I think them a poor substitute for a proper hinge.

 

When fitting pin hinges always wipe a smear of oil or vaseline to both sides of the hinge knuckle, this eliminates glue penetration.

Edited By Terry Whiting on 11/02/2010 10:30:23

[Supermario]

Hi Jim

Mylar hinges or flat pin type hinges uses the same method to apply.

We need to make a linear cut ( slot ) on the edges with a knife or the tool I post picture.

The diference is mylar hinges glue with CA and the others usually with epoxy.

Mylar hinges give a more clean look, the others shows the metalic axle.

Really is a personal choice.

If you put the mylar hinges it's allright, just try to left a half milimeter gap between the edges, they will work better.

To glue them use the thinest CA you can find. They glue by capelarety(?)

One great advantage of the mylar hinges is that you can do all the finishing of the model and put the hinges at last with 3 drops of CA in each side of the hinge, with the flap or aileron in place.

Terry, I think can correct me if I'm wrong and put  my ideas more understandable for you.

Mário

PS

When I'm wrighting this post, you Terry antecipate with your bristish ponctuallity and Knowledge, I sent and there was your answer. Thank you

Edited By Supermario on 11/02/2010 10:27:02

[Terry Whiting]

Mario,

 

You gave JIm the answer in the use of Mylar which I didn't,  as I'm somewhat anti

Mylar,  I suppose I'm too old for change.

 

I have read in one of my aircraft magazines that there is a light full size aircraft 

using a similar hinge.   I think I would have been rather concerned if that hinge

 was on the aircraft I was having lessons on.   

[Geoff Daunt]

Mario,

Many thanks for your input. As they say a picture can tell a thousand words.                      To All.

As a matter of information my Carbon Copy undercarriage is not quite right for the shape of the wheel spats.The "bend" for the wheel axle needs to be higher.....otherwise it is about spot on.

I was going to try and source some Dural and have a go but someone has suggested to me that if l heat the Carbon/resin leg with a heat gun it will go soft and l can rebend to whatever shape l want and then let it cool and it will be as strong as ever.

Can anybody give me any advice on this?

[Terry Whiting]

Geoff,

 

I have my doubts about the advise you were given in being able to reshape cured Carbon material with heat. I thought if this was possible, why would manufactures

of cabon fibre undercarriages bother to produce a moulds.

[Papa]

I tried that with CF rod and all I got was a bend with a lot of separated fibres. Nothing worked. I suspect the bonding agent does not allow remolding. It probably changes its chemical structure as it cures.

 

Jack Higgins.

[Peter 'Ivanna Crashalot' Savage]

Why not use the hinge type you used on the tail surfaces mario? that would look good!

[rookie jim]

Hi terry, mario and geoff.

 

I got the hinge kit you mentioned geoff and its just like the one Mario posted a picture of. did not get the knife handles just the blades as i lready have a handle that they fit into. ost £3.99.

 

Been practicing doing hinges on scraps and pinning. the pinning works a treat but its difficult to cut off level and i am worrying about spoiling the covering so i am thinking of making the pins a couple of mm shorter thatn the wood the hinges go into. I will then cover elevators stab etc and when i do the top covering i will stick ti the le but have  some extra whic i wont wrap around the bottom. hope i am making sense at the moment.

 

then i will fix the pins in from the bootom/underside and as they are shorter they wont protrude through the top. i will then push level or just under surface of underside and then stick the covering down and hide the join.

 

What do you guys think.? have i got it completely wrong or is there a better way. I am not expecting my model to urn out as good as yours guys but i thought i would try and make it as good as i can.

 

we have had a few posts about the runs for the throttle. i have exprimented a bit and if i use that crash foam on the bottom of the area i can run thepush rod under the tank. the tank is lifted enough for me to run the push rod and tube through the firewall and through a small balsa retainer i will glue to the floor beside the foam strip.

 

 

Jim

 

 

[Papa]

Jim, there is a handy shears sold in train shops by Xuron that flush cuts. It will cut the hinge pins perfectly. They are sold in GB for around 19 pounds. A bit pricey but a lifetime tool. Have a look at it here.  http://www.xuron.com/consumer/shears.htm

 

Jack.

[rookie jim]

jack,

thanks for the link. the ultraflush shears look ideal. they will certainly make things easier and then all i have to do is dab a little matt black paint on the ends. will pop into model  shop at weekend.

 

i just re-read my last post which judging by the spelling mistakes i should have done before i posted it.

 

see timbo i need a spell checker!!

 

jim

Edited By rookie jim on 15/02/2010 22:53:54

Edited By rookie jim on 15/02/2010 23:10:21

[Terry Whiting]

Hi Jim,

 

Really it should not be necessary to dowel pin a hinge, if you take  time and care in the  gluing, that should be quite sufficient. Kavan and Du-bro flat pin hinges have 4 or 6 glue keying holes in each half of the hinge, but if you feel you must dowel just use a piece of cocktail stick.

 

Prior to gluing any hinges or ABS, I wipe first with Isopropyl Alcohol, this is incase a release agent has been used in the manufacturer.

(Isopropyl Alcohol can be purchased at most chemists, you may be questioned on it's use)   

 

Just try gluing a hinge in your test piece, use a slow cure epoxy NOT 5 minute. Leave it  for 24 hours and see if you can pull it out with a pair of pliers. I think then you will realise

dowel pinning through the hinge is unnecessary.

 

   

[Allan Bennett]

If you want to pin your hinges, by all means go ahead.  But like Terry Whiting, I've never found a need to do so.  Even using the thin, smooth, "mylar" hinges (I now use the hairy version) I've found that if I try to remove them by pulling with pliers, I also take out a great chunk of balsa.  I use thin cyano, by the way, though I would certainly use epoxy if I were using hinges with a pin in the middle, so that the pin wouldn't get glued up solid.

[rookie jim]

terry,allan

 

just had a go at epoxy gluing a nylon pin hinge to my scraps so now i have to wait and see.

 

i must admit though that using epoxy was far less stressful. i had time to adjust positions and fix. even managed to fix both sides of hinges at the same time. not sure whether i would do both sides at the same time on the lizzie.

 

the problem with cyano especially the thin is the speed it sets so i think the epoxy route suits me best.

 

thank you guys. you've made life a lot easier, less rush and no pinning and trying to disguise the stubs.

 

jim

[Terry Whiting]

Hi Jim,

 

Pleased for you,   you know the old saying  "practice makes perfect"

 

When it comes to the actual job of hinging, do not try to do the complete job in one hit.

I always do the moving surfaces first,  make sure the epoxy is well coated inside the slot, and clean off the face surface before adding the hinge. Then let them cure. 

 

Do not forget the vaseline 

 

For my ailerons and flaps I will be using strips pieces of the covering material as the hinge. If you would like to know the method I will add it to the blog.  

  

Terry

 

Edited By Terry Whiting on 17/02/2010 08:50:13

[MThemadhatter]

Hi all

 

I recently bought the complete pack for the Lysander and will start construction in a few weeks time. It's been a while since I built rather than assembled a model so I may jump in here with a question or two now and again. I have read through this entire thread and it's extremely helpful, thank you to you all for putting so much detail up

 

I have one question to start with. I am going to use a Saito62 on mine simply because I have one. It also works out a little light than the SC52 recommended. On the plans it says to use a 11oz slec tank. The FW190 that the saito is coming off has a 9 oz tank on it and I comfortably get a 10min flight with at least a third of the tank left at the end. In terms of weight saving would it not be better to use a 9oz slec tank or is this going to upset the balance ?

[Terry Whiting]

Hi M T.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the engine and tank weight issue, because none of the wood packs can  possibly be exactly the same weight, If you can save just 7g in the tail construction, that works out to approximately 1oz less ballast in the nose.

 

You have started with a lighter engine,  just see if you can save weight in the tail end to compensate, I'm sure you can.

 

All the best with your build.

 

Terry

[Peter 'Ivanna Crashalot' Savage]

Anyone else here hoping to get their lysanders ready for the big RCM&E 50th anniversary fun fly?

[Peter 'Ivanna Crashalot' Savage]

Does anyone have the capability to CNC cut me a dural undercarriage? i don't particularly want to faff about with aluminium and a hack saw!

I will organize something with my dads paypal account  ; )

[Stephen Grigg]

Have tou looked on the Carbon Copy site,they do really good U/C, some of my club mates have used them

[Peter 'Ivanna Crashalot' Savage]

Hmm, i think an alumimium one would probably be cheaper