Building the Nijhuis Lysander

[Clive45]

WoW.......Thankyou.

As I said ugly but beautiful.

You certainley seem to have a good selection of pictures.

[John Hickson]

Don't know whether its the angle of that photo but the plane looks huge!

[Clive45]

30ft long, 50ft W/S and 15 ft high but I think the camera angle makes it look bigger asyou say.

[Ernie]

Hi guys, I'm sure the shuttleworth version has an accurate colour scheme, but Aeroplane monthly says that the underside of special opperations aircraft were painted a sooty, non reflective black underneath. I'd say the old warden version is certainly not sooty. Also, it suggests that the uppersides were as not changed.....Any ideas guys?

ernie

[Clive45]

Happy New Year to all.............

Well it's gone very quiet on here ...................maybe not many building the WL.

How is yours going Ernie? Hope its warming up a bit over there

I have been building quite consistantly and have just about finished the main structures.

Ailerons and flaps and servo mounts are next, I am also going electric so some mods have to be done and hope to get the c of g close without lots of extra lead up front. I have tried to incorperate as much as possible during the build, I hate hacking after the build.

I must say that this is a enjoyable build and I am inpressed with the resulting build quality. The design not me.

I would have liked it bigger say about 80" or so, but the plans for that size seem to be much more complicated.

[Ernie]

Hi, Clive, No, it's not warming up at all, even the lipos are on strike.

Yes, I reckon they are all onto Harvards

I'm probably at about the same stage.......fuz is well on, but uncovered. I checked the dihedral, and trueness of the wings this afternoon, and the dihedral is a wee bit out, 40 at one tip, & 50 at the other. Also a wee warp on one. I gave the whole lot a spray with bleach, and tied them down to dry overnight. I'm also experimenting with surface detail on the tail, to match the photos of the Shuttleworth example.

Seen the tour down under?

ernie

[Clive45]

Hi Ernie, its 7 deg C this morning at 6am and will be 34 deg C mid day here.

My wings were slightly better about 5-6mm out but I adjusted that with the tubes in the wing and then glued them, They will pably flex a bit when flying any way.

Harvards Eh Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm never had anyone have one that flies well without a lot of trouble beforehand,

Will be interested to see how you get on with the surface details.

No have not seen the Tour down under except on the news, not a cycling fan I'afraid

Clive

[Clive45]

Obviously this thread is dead and buried, since no more posts have been forthcoming .

I'll push on anyway. Finished the tedious work of the flaps and ailerons+hinges, not hard but laborious.

Shaped all the wing and tail blocks, thank God for small razor planes. I was feeling very good about my progress until I started on the spats................the only thing worth complaining about in the whole build, very much cut and hope. For the money they are terrible but I have managed to cobble them together with much cursing. I have also as some others made the panels removable on the outside so I can access the wheels and it gives it a bit more of a scale look.

Thats about it so far, its starting to look like the real thing and I want to hurry to finish it but I'll keep plodding along or I will do something wrong and spoil it.

[rookie jim]

Hi clive,

its nice to see the lizzie is still being built. I hope all goes well and i must agree the spats were definitely below standard.

I started this build, my model is finished but i still havent flown it. I wanted to get my BMFA 'A" certificate first and get some experience, which i have now done but the weather last year wasnt that helpful.

Good luck with the rest of your build.

Jim

[Clive45]

Hi Jim, thanks for posting. I certainly hope all goes well with your first flight with Lizzie.

A couple of questions if I may.

IC or electric power

Did you build in washout to the wing.

Please post when you have flown it as would like to get your opinion and I hope the weather gets better for you.

Cheers

Clive

[Jonners]

Clive, sorry the thread seems dead and buried to you. I guess there was so much coverage at the start when the plan came out there isn't much new to add now.

I am 99% completed and waiting for the chance to fly - between starting all this and now, a couple of infants have filled my life and put the whole thing on the back burner.

Mine is electric, copying Alan Bennett further back in this thread and I did not build deliberate washout into the wing (last time I did this, the incidence at the wing tips wound up negative).

I hope to post something on the maiden flight in due course (and at least capture the crash on video!).

Nick

[Clive45]

Hi Nick, glad to hear that there still some people building "Lizzie". Yes kids and family do seem to put a hold on building.

Not quite sure how you get wash in when building for wash out but remember the leading will be negative compared to the root and the trailing edge positive. That way the tip will not stalquickly due to less incidence and hopefully the wing will stall all at the same time or close allowing the aircraft to drop a wing slowly or just drop the nose instead of snaping.

All the best with the maiden and please let us know how it goes.

Cheers

Clive

[Allan Bennett]

Mine crashed a long time ago due, I believe, to wingtip stall. But it's been fixed and ready to go for almost a year now, waiting for suitable weather for a re-maiden (I hate maidening on damp, cold, dark days, even if the wind is right).

My wings weren't damaged in the crash -- only the nose and the cabin roof wing-support structure and canopy -- so I didn't get the opportunity to build wash-out in. I glued the canopy pieces together and made a plaster of paris mould from it, cleaned up the mould, and then had a friend vaccuum form me a new canopy. 

I now keep reminding myself to keep the speed up during turns.

Edited By Allan Bennett on 18/02/2013 08:51:27

[Clive45]

Hi Allan, Glad to hear its back in on piece , but I do worry about the tip stall. I have copied the washout used by someone on here where it is packed up whilst building the wing. I don't like twisting the wing and putting permanent stress on the wing. Hopefully this will make things better as I hate to have to fly a slow aircraft at high speed just to fly.

Maybe you can limit min throttle and have a switch to allow normal throttle on nding and take off just so you don't let the speed get too low.

Gee the spats are a dogs breakfast, poor quality and very hard to get set up correctly.

I'm waiting on several small parts to keep going, I have no LHS withing 2.5 hours drive, very frustrating.

I'm with you in that I like to enjoy my flying so good weather is necessary..........................

[Jonners]

Hi Clive, no it wasn't wash in, it was super wash out. The wing was so twisted that the angle of attack at the tip was negative! I think there was an earlier posting here about getting the wash out technically correct, but with my Lysander build I just decided to try and get the whole thing true - which worked. Now it looks like I will have to watch the slow turns a bit!

Nick

[Allan Bennett]

Just after I made my posting earlier today I remembered that I plan to use a few degrees of flap when I fly mine again. This should have a similar effect to washout, shouldn't it, because the inner part of the wing (the flaps) will be down relative to the outer part?

[Roy Hill 3]

Glad to see that the 'Lizzie' thread is not totally dead! I started my TN 'Lizzie' some 18 months ago and found it not too difficult to construct. (I've just returned to the hobby after a short 30 year rest!) I agree that the spats are only fit for the bin and the canopy is not much better. Mine is now finished,covered and awaiting spraying before the dreaded maiden. Lets keep the thread going. Happy landings. Regards, Roy

[Clive45]

Morning all, great to see some posts,,,,,I thought yesterday I might be on my own.

Allan, tip stall is when the wing tip stall before the root. Washout raises the rear of the wing tip and effectivly changes the angle of attack so the stall for that part of the wing is later, so hopefully when the stall occours its more towards the root and a more gentle stall occours. Thats how it was explained th me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washout_%28aviation%29

I think flaps will increase your stall speed but increase drag, from what I have d "Lizzie" flies quite fast normally so it won't hurt. Worth a try..........test it at safe hight.

It looks like we might have a few maidens this year.

What color schemes is every one using

[Allan Bennett]

Thanks Clive45. I was aware of the cause of tip stall (and the fact that some people reckon there is no such thing!), and was thinking that because washout changes the tip angle relative to the rest of the wing, moving the rest of the wing down relative to the tip (i.e. a bit of flap) might achieve a similar result

Anyway, I'm waiting until we have a nice calm, warm, sunny day. Mine's black, as per the Old Warden example.

As for the spats, I still haven't installed them yet. I assembled them as best I could, smoothed them with P-38 body filler, and then used them as moulds to make new fibreglass ones, which will be lighter. I also intend to cut them around the wheel profile and, probably, fly without the wheel covers.

[Clive45]

Sorry Allan, I did not intend to preach just to explain things.

I would love a set of your fibreglass spats if your making some....................make a little profit whilst making yours.

I had planned to do the black scheme but thought it might to lead to loss of orientation, I have enough problems with different colours top and bottom.

My spats are just going on, first half is drying as I type.

With regard to flaps they give you a higher lift wing and also drag thus you have a lower stall speed, but I'm not sure it will prevent tip stall just make it happen at a lower speed. I believe that wash out prevents tip stall having such a disastorus action when it happens as it makes the wing stall more evenly thus preventing it doing a snap. This is my understanding of it but I have been known to be wrong

[Roy Hill 3]

Good morning all. Allan, you must be the Messiah for whom we have all been waiting. If you construct a mould and produce some wheel spats, could you. please. let me know and I will gladly purchase a set from you. Having spoken to several 'Lizzie' owners, I wouldn't be surprised if you sold quite a few sets!

I am going to spray mine with a matt black underside and 'European theatre' green and brown on top. I agree with you, Clive45, spraying matt black all over could lead to orientation problems. I think that I will have enough problems with tip-stall without wondering which way up it is!

I made a bit of a deviation from the plan by not building a hatch on the underside but installing 3 servos under the removeable hatch and the 4th servo built into the firewall to control the Thunder Tiger with only a few inches of push rod. I will post some pictures as soon as I can get into the sub-zero degrees workshop! Best regards, Roy

[Clive45]

This is more like it.....even if its to cold to build or weather to fly, keep the dream alive on the forum.

Well Allan its up to you and if you want to make the spats but as said I think you will sell a few. Even with the freight to Australia I am interested.

I'm off to see how my spats are drying and off to bed.

Catch you all later.

[Noel Eaton]

Hi,

I,m following this thread with interest as I,m going to build a Lysander at some point ,

Correct me if I;m wrong but didnt the original full size also have slats on the leading edge's that worked on a semi automatic basis acording to flying speed , and are they not also strongly influential in preventing tip stall ? I know they work in conjunction with flaps ,but as to the details of how and why I'm a bit vague I'm afraid, I,m hoping someone will read this and enlighten us all

If this is the case ,Has anyone considered or actualy gone ahead and fitted working slats on thier Lysander ? I know some models have them but I,ve never owned or flown a model with them myself ,

Has any one any experience of building /flying with slats on a model ?

I'm learning so much on this web site Thanks to everyone who contributes, all I ever seem to do is ask the questions,

Noel

[Clive45]

Hi Noel, welcome to the forum, a wealth of information and some very smart builders.

I would suggest a read of this http://www.aviationtrivia.info/Westland-Lysander.php

It will show you that Lizzy was no easy to fly.

I would say thatit is possible to build in the slats to be operated by the flaps but what effect they would have on this size model might be very limited.

Look forward to your posts when you start building.

Clive

[Allan Bennett]

Sorry chaps, my fibreglass wheel spats are by no means of merchandisable quality -- they still need quite a bit of work (AKA body filler) to make them look good. I made them partly as an opportunity to make them look better, and partly so that I have a mould to make new ones after they inevitably get broken.

As for black, and orientation, I flew an all-black Pulsar bipe many years back, and had no issues regarding visibility. This was after I had observed that in our usual lighting conditions in the UK all models look black (apart from the white ones that get lost in the mist) once they're up there. My reference, if in doubt about orientation, is the undercarriage which should be hanging down.

Interesting link there Clive45. I've always thought of the Lysander as a slow flyer because of its short-field capabilities, but it seems that's not the case. So, my first reaction, which is to not fly my model so slowly, may be better than fiddling with the flaps