Doug Ireland Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Hi guys, Are there any differences in the running-in procedure between ABC and ringed engines? Cheers, Doug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Doug Yep ! Loads of info on various threads but basically get an ABC up to a temperature quickly (slightly rich mixture of course) and run for a short while- ie one minute -leave to cool and repeat several times -Maybe a half litre of fuel for a 40 size . This beds in the accurately machined piston& liner to be a perfect fit at normal running temperature eventually after which you can lean off the mixture slightly until it runs really smoothly -You'll know by smell/touch (temp by hand) & sound . If run too rich at too low temperature the end result will be a bore that is too loose (worn)a fit at the top of the stroke !(basically). With a ring job -a bit like cars were -Ahem! slowly but surely will produce a long lasting engine with good compression as the ring settles into the proper contour of the cylinder walls as they both change shape according to the running temp .Just a brief explanation but as usual there is more to it than that .Depends on a lot of factors . I have run my ringed engines in ,in the air -flying that is but I certainly wouldn't try it with an ABC . Hope this helps! If all else fails,read the destructions . G-UMPY IC Lover (Thinking of going back to turbines but on modelling scale size) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 PS I only use one fuel for all applications 2 st -4st running in and running ,it's worked for me . The fuel I hear you ask ? -- Duraglo 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Ireland Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 Thanks Myron, the problem is that SC do not supply detailed instructions re mixture settings or the duration of the running-in procedure. Should I just use the procedure for OS engines instead? By the way, the engine in question is ringed.Edited By Doug Ireland on 30/10/2009 19:27:53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 doug-ringed piston -run in like the old day's---abc is the opposite---to rich running in duffs up the innard's.......... ken anderson.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Ireland Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 Sorry Ken, your post doesn't really help me much. How can running too rich "duff-up" the innards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 If it's OK for me to answer this, it's all in Myron's post but simply, run rich, there's insufficient heat expansion to open up the correct clearance at the top of the tapered bore and more metal is removed that should be, leading to excessive clearance once the engine is run in and properly leaned out. Aim to run in an ABC at a setting where the engine is starting to 2 stroke - if you're not sure what this sounds like get a (knowledgeable) clubmate to demonstrate - with a low pitch prop. It's also important not to run at low rpm which will stop it getting up to running temperature as quickly as possible.Edited By Martin Harris on 31/10/2009 00:06:31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Ireland Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share Posted October 31, 2009 Hi Martin, I think I mentioned that this is a ringed engine, I'm well aware of the procedure for an ABC donk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 bonjour doug-the answer is all in martin's post above-i'm from the old school of ic engine's-and when i came back into it..i was made aware of the fact that the ABC engine's suffer badly(in fact you wreck them) if you run them in the 'normal' way...ie- rich....a ringed engine will need running rich for a few tank's to allow the ring to bed into the liner ect...i normally run mine in(abc/ringed)in the air.......hope this has explained my slang for duff up the innard's...... ken anderson..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Richards Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Doug, basically for a ringed engine you start of running very rich even so far as the engine not running unless the glow is left energised (I think SC 4T instructions say 5 turns out on the main needle). After about half a tank you can lean off about half a turn. Then another haf turn after the next half tank. Keep this up untill you are getting close to peak revs. Then get the engine in the air and run it rich for the first 5-6 flights slowly over the next few flights start to move towards max revs a click at a time. but always remember that it is best to find peak revs on the ground then back off a click or 2 to be slightly rich to allow for unloading of the prop when flying. While you are doing this you will get a feel for what is right if you lean it off a bit and it struggles or does not sound happy then just richen it up a bit and run a bit longer at the richer setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Another well known tip for running in in the air. Fly Cuban Eights repeatedly. this loads and unloads the engine on a regular pattern. In case you don't know the Cuban eight. 3/4 loop. half roll, 3/4 loop half roll and repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Just dug out the destructions for ringed SC 4 st's . Salient points referred to are #1 Run very rich for first tank of fuel ie with carb fully open and needle valve at least 5 turns open Exhaust very smoky if done correctly Do NOT exceed 8000 rpm! #2 For the next few tanks of fuel,run at a rich setting but start to lean the mixture for short periods using the main needle.If the rpm decreases when leaning out ,or shows other signs of overheating ,immediately open/richen the main needle More or less what has been said actually About an hours running is required to achieve consistant running it says .In my experience that's about right for my SC52 and ASP 52 (different badge only I think cos the part nos are almost identical ) Hope this helps Myron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 PS Props recommended-- 11X7 to 13X5 for what its worth ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Also, when running in either type of engine use the smallest prop. that the manufacturer recommends.Edited By Richard Bond on 31/10/2009 09:02:23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Ireland Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share Posted October 31, 2009 Thanks for the advice guys. I don't have an airframe for this engine yet (SC 52) as the Lysander is still a pile of wood, so I will run a few tanks through it on the test stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Doug, you are welcome to a copy of the ASP instructions (same motor, different badge) that I have.....these are actually written in English (as opposed to Chinglish!!) by the late Paul Landels of Just Engines.. PM me if you'd like a copy..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Ireland Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Another question regarding the SC FS52AR. It has a crankcase nipple that is not connected to the induction tube (as in OS Engines), is this left open to atmosphere when the engine is running? The instructions for my OS Radial say to put a piece of tubing over the nipple and plug it off for running then remove it to drain the crankcase after running. Thanks for the offer Steve, I'll send you my address.Edited By Doug Ireland on 02/11/2009 11:22:49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 In a Radial the actual crankcase volume doesn't change that much as the motor turns.....some pistons are decending whilst others are acending & the volume stays pretty constant so you can keep the beather "sealed" ......(keeping any excess oil in the crankcase is good too as there are several crankpins & various other bits that would appreciate the oil!!!).......in a single cylinder engine this is most definitely NOT the case.....the crankcase volume goes from maximum to minimum on every revolution so you need to ensure this breather is left open to allow air to escape or be sucked in. Various methods abound....from just leaving the nipple open to routing some tube into a small film canister to collect the excess oil (which can then be disposed of). Personally I route some tube from the breather to outside the cowl (usually underneath) so any excess oil is disposed of in the slipstream AND I can get at it at the end of the day to squirt a bit of after run oil into the crank case....just a few drops into the tube & then turn the motor over & it will suck the oil inside (unless the piston is decending in which case it will blow all the oil out again!!!) Be aware that any grit or dirt can also be sucked inside too....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I leave the breather nipple as is but that is just my mucky way. I fuel proof the engine bay well and have a drain outlet at the bottom to get rid of excess oil., I have read that one should not use a piece of tube longer than two inches as anything longer doesn't actually allow the oil to leave the tube. Not totally conviced by this but thought it worth a mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Ireland Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Thanks for that guys, as the engine will be inverted in the model I'm going to run it on the bench inverted too. I was thinking of a short bit of tube running down the side of the engine as the nipple will effectively be pointing upwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun K Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Peter, I believe it was the esteemed Wizard of Oz who wrote the comment about the 2" breather tube limit in a past RCM&E article. I have the same quandry with in inverted installation in my almost complete Tony Nijhuis Spitfire... Doug, I have an ASP .61FS which I ran in pretty slowly and it's never given me an ounce of trouble. It did take quite some time to get decent compression with the ringed engine compared to an ABC which I found a bit alarming at first, but 2 years on it's a gem of an engine. Shaun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Ireland Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 I'm using an OS 70 4 stroke in my TN Hurricane but this engine has a tube from the breather to the intake manifold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I have both the ASP 61 & 70...both great motors.....I certainly have much more than 2" of tube on the breather of the 61.....no problems at all.... & I agree with Shaun K....when I got my ASP 61 there was literally no compression when turned over by hand....nothing....I even took the rocker cover off to see if one of the valves was sticking......it started second go however & after a rich tankful the compression really arrived......!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Richards Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 The Saito 82 in my Osmose (intalled by the previous owner) has a piece of pipe from the breather nipple right through the full length of the fuselage (about a meter). The previous owner said he had done it to help keep the model clean. It does not appear to cause any problem and all the oil does end up over the tail wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Just goes to show, you can't believe all that you read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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