ARTF's

[Adrian Brameld]

we've been hearing for a number of years about artf models.what i want to know is who builds these models.are they produced on a production line or are they individually built by people sat at building boards which must be extremely labour intensive to say the least.does anybody know?. 

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

As far as I'm aware they are built on a "production line" basis making several hundred at a time......all components are cut out & then supplied to the line where lots of people build em up. Many have interlocking tabs & are effectively "self jigging" such is the accuracy of CAD systems & CNC cutters. My understanding is you will have guys doing the fuz..some more doing the wings...others covering the various bits...still more kitting & packaging!!!!!

This is why they are finished so well...imagine if all you did for 10 hours a day was cover the same wing....with all that practice just think how good you'd get!!!!

Yes building a model takes a lot of time but on a production line you can churn them out pretty quickly & these people earn peanuts so the price for an ARTF is amazingly cheap......

[Tom Ruut]

  I know of one guy who strips ALL the covering off his artfs to reglue all the joints and then recovers the whole model.WOW!

[GrumpyGnome]

How does he do that ?  On the few artf's I have, I can't get at lots of the joints as they are under the sheeting .............................................

Must admit I do check and reinforce the joints under stress like firewall, undercart etc..

I like the concept of ARTC but as most ARTF's are covered to a better standard than I could achieve, it'd be a little self-defeating for me.

GG

[airman]

Can RCM&E publish visits to the factories where our models, engines and radios are manufactured?

Dave

[spanner]

Here Here, visits to the factories sounds interesting, can I come too?

[Adrian Brameld]

could the manufacturers not put out kits as well as the ready made models so give us the choice of wether to build or not.surely this would hit middle ground between those who like to build and those who just want to fly.never know they might increase thier sales!.  

[Tom Sharp]

I keep buying loads of ARTF's hoping that it will bring back a desire to build from kits again. lol

[spanner]

I fly ARTFs, that seems to convert them back to kit form !!

[airman]

Hi Spanner, yes ARFT do convert back to kit form. There appears to be a world wide shortage of glue.

Also is there a shortage of piano wire? Most manufactures are cutting costs by using soft wire in place of piano wire.

Just started to check and glue the joints of the last ARFT I brought. Also will be recovering it Solatex, and repainting it in more scale markings.

Having second  thoughts about buying ARFT kits again.

[David Ashby - Moderator]

I spoke to an industry insider the other day on the very topic. We're trying to persude some of the UK distributor reps who travel out to the far east to take some pics for us so stay tuned - they're a little retiscent at the moment as they don't want to give away secrets.

He did say that factory conditions can vary wildly. Some establishments are little more than big sheds where everything is covered in balsa dust where as others you could eat your dinner off the floor - spotless in other words.

I think there's a place for 'good' ARTF models, they get you in the air while you build a proper model from a kit or plan. In that respect they're no harm.  

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

ARTFs are great...admittedly there are some poorly built ones out there but there are (or should that be were!!) some horrendously built models from kits & plans that used to appear too.

Personally speaking I know I couldn't finish a model as well as a typical ARTF.

I know all the arguments about poor build quality & lack of glue & have seen these in my own models & I totally agree that using a dash more glue & more particularly the right glue would be much appreciated by the model buying public. Like most things in life you get what you pay for & there are good & bad ARTFs...usually the price is a good guide but then again its not the only guide... There are some brilliant cheap models & some cr*p expensive ones......!!!!

One thing that always makes me smile is that there are people who seem to think that an ARTF has no value & a model MUST be built by the pilot.....why? In which other hobby are you obliged to make your own equipment? Do you have to make your own squash racket before you play squash? Where should we draw the line.....should "real" aeromodellers make their own engines??? Carve their own props?? Manufacture their own radio????

The great thing about Aeromodelling as a hobby (& the main reason I love it so much) is that there are so many different skills required & you can now pick & choose which you want to do. Love the flying bit.....??? buy an ARTF....like building...? No problem....plans & kits abound....the point is to indulge as much or as little as you want. Aeromodelling is a broad Church.....each to his own I say.....

 Right.....I'll get me coat!!!!!!

[airman]

After the report of a ARTF model. Can the model then be handed over, to club members of model club, which the reporter belongs too? Then after  three months of the normal club flying a follow up report could be published.

The price does not reflect the standard build quality. I am rebuilding and covering an expensive ARFT, because of the cost cutting in manufacturing. It appears the manufacturer put more time and money into the packaging to make it more saleable

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[airman]

In the letter page of the November RCME there is a letter about the build quality of ARFT kits.

Yes, the dealer did the correct thing in replacing the model. But that is not the point.

The joint should  not have failed. What would happen if the model had injured a person on or off the flying site? .

Why did this joint not fail on the review model, are the kits supplied for review hand picked by the manufactures?

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Quite right, agree Dave. Why didn't we have a problem with the review model?

Lots of possibilities there of course ......Yes we don't get to pick a kit from a pile and simply don't have the time to visit distributors to select review models, we have to rely on what is sent although I'm not sure even distributors can tell how good the construction is under the covering when assessing what to send to us - we know from previous experience that they don't - see the harsh words our reviewer had for the VMAR F5 review in the August issue! 

[Phil Claridge]

one of my clubmates had a large cap artf with a moki 180 upfront applied the starter and the motor plus firewall fell off luckily before it started firewall was mostly glued to foam

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Its all a bit scary innit.

I don't think its unreasonable for us, the buying public, to expect a product we buy to be built properly........imagine the engine falling out of your car because someone forgot to weld the mountings in properly!!!!! Obviously this would never happen but why would it never happen? Because of quality control...... car manufacturers spend millions making sure they only sell "high quality" products & initiate checks at vital points. It's possible for any process to go wrong so systems should be built to minimse the risk & checked frequently.

Sadly in China this concept does seem to be lacking slightly......remember the lead paint issue on Fisher Price toys.....?

My own company has an issue at the moment with some large electrical contacts we have sourced from China. We specified a certain grade of copper that we know works in this application so were surprised when they failed testing....the following exchange ocurred betwewn China & our Engineering Manager....."I can't understand why these have failed...you've used the right material?", "Yes, definitely", "You're absolutely sure its C111 Copper to BS2874", "Absolutely, no doubt about it", "Well thats very strange.....we know this stuff works. For the last time you have definitely used the correct grade.....?", "Er...No". As the resultant language may be a touch strong for some of our more delicate readers I suggest we leave the conversation at this point........

I suppose all we can do is report poor builds back to the importers/model shops & let them beat up their suppliers but whilst we still buy the things I guess they will keep supplying. I wonder what will happen as ARTFs get more complex & expensive? If the firewall fell out of that £100 Yak you might well shrug & put it down to experience. You might not be as willing to do that if it fell out of a, say, a £400 P61"Black Widow".....

[Russ Williams]

Hi

Is it because i started modelling back in the 70's ? i just cant get into artf's building from a kit is ok but the real enjoyment for me is building from scratch with a plan, buying balsa in sheet form not pre-cut like in a kit.are there any others out there that are still into PROPER model building?

[Bob Cotsford]

After 40 years of model building, cutting out intricate shapes from ply can get a bit tedious, nowadays I'm quite content  to let a kit supplier cut everything for me.

The last plan built model I started was the Jungmeister, started in about 1992 or 3.  I just need to fit the radio, cowl and undercart to get it airworthy, though it was coated in 15 years worth of dust untill recently.

I've nothing against the theory of ARTFs, not everyone wants to or even can spare the time and effort to scratch or kit build, but I have to say I've not been impressed with the materials or structural designs of the  ones 've seen close up.  OK as long as you don't suffer the odd heavy landing, but any unglued joint in the cobweb type structures and you'd be in real trouble.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Jetsome you are absolutely right & thats the whole crux of the problem.......many (most??) ARTFs look absolutely gorgeous on the outside but obviously you can't see on the inside where the glue is (or isn't!!).

Price appears to be little help as from what I've seen those little Seagull electric jobbies (£60) are beautifully made whilst above someone complains of a large 180 powered CAP falling apart at the first touch of a starter.

I like the idea of a Ripmax Mustang with a real engine too .......but surely a 30 fourstroke is the way to go!!!

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[airman]

David Ashby replied that some of the distributors of model aircraft kits. Do not know the standard of building, under the covering of the products they are selling. This is worrying, as they are selling a product which could be lethal.

I want to be able to by a ARFT kit knowing that it correctly built. The trade must produce a code of practice for the way this kits are built. If not, soon or later a politician trying to make a name for himself, will get  goverment legislation to cover model air models.

[Phil Claridge]

i bought a cheap trainer called excell 2000 from smc eight years ago cost forty quid it has had a hard life flying off grass and concrete now looking very tatty but no structual problems at all i have landed it inverted on huge pile pig manure and in trees it still comes back for more best 40 quid i ever spent