David Davis Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 The day before yesterday I bumped into my Aunty Pat. She said that her husband, my Uncle Ivor, had cleared the loft and had got some model aeroplane bits which I could have. Most of it was fit only for the bonfire but I took away some rough-sawn balsa and this old Outlaw. I realise that it will need recovering and the fin rebuilt or at least the warp removing, but then what do I do with it? It seems to me that I have the following options. 1. Fit my PAW 149 if I can find it and keep it as a free-flight model. Advantages: maintains originality. Disadvantages: model is model likely to be damaged than if it were radio controlled. 2. As per 1 but fit a radio with a single servo controlling the rudder. Advantages: makes the model less likely to crash and easier to retrieve. Disadvantages: Cost, time and trouble. 3. As per 2 but build a false trailing edge into the structure and fit elevators. Advantages: allows the model to penetrate a breeze and makes it generally more controllable so even less likely to crash! (Probably!) Disadvantages: as per 2 only more so plus the extended running of a small unsilenced diesel might not be welcome everywhere. 4. As 3 but go all modern and fit a small electric motor. What is the opinion of the forum? Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 11/11/2011 19:21:29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Mods, for some reason I haven't been able to post an image of the Outlaw yet it is in my photo albums. Please use your superior computer skills to post the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 There we go David! Picture in. For me - option two. You're right about option 1, free flight is all very well, but we largely gave it up for a reason, we kepted loosing/smashing models. We still do the later, but we do the former less often now! If you butcher it (option 3) you'll regret it and it may well not take too kindly to it anyway. Take option 4 and I'll butcher you! I'll put even the suggestion of that down as a just momentary weakness on your part - are you feeling better now? BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plummet Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 With something that old I wonder if you should keep as much of the model as possible as it is. I am not suggesting that you free-flight it at risk of loss or damage. But could you maintain the look of the model. Would it be possible to add RC, but to do so in a way that does not mean cutting the structure too much. Is there a transparent plastic material that you could use to add control surfaces to the existing airframe so that in the air the rudder/elevator are invisible? Plummet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Started the model's ED Competition Special the other day. Not too powerful but it works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 What's going to happen to it if you restore it and keep it as a static model? Is it really going to be saved for posterity or will it simply get binned when you finally hang up your sunglasses and go to the happy flying fields in the sky? My personal preference would be to restore it with an appropriate diesel and arrange a rudder to fly it single channel with a view to trimming it to fly as a freeflight but with the option of bringing it home reliably. Look after it, fly it at the right time and place and it will probably be in just as good condition when you finally pop your clogs after (hopefully) many decades of pleasure. P.S. If you electrify it and you're too far away for BEB to sort you out I'll gladly take on the contract!!!Edited By Martin Harris on 30/11/2011 13:52:57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 I think that I may well take your advice Martin. I was planing to fit an elevator so that I could flare a landing but that might prove difficult on this model owing to the taper of the tailplane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Outlaws have always confused me......I had a flying friend many years ago who reckoned to have an Outlaw but it was nothing like the one in the picture....it was more like the Veron Robot....it had straight dihedral wings rather than the polyhedral of Davids version..... Was there a Mark 2 Outlaw or something? PS by the way I agree with Martin & BEB regarding the power source.....anything electric will earn you a good beating with an oil soaked KeilKraft handbook........so be warned...!!!Edited By Steve Hargreaves on 30/11/2011 17:24:58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo565 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 It looks like one of the old Southerners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 There were two Keil Kraft Outlaws. Uncle Ivor's is a free flight model which dates from the 1940s or early 50's. Ivor even found the building instructions which he's given me. The other Outlaw was a single channel r/c model. The Southerner had an oval fuselage and elliptical tips. Uncle Ivor's Outlaw has a family resemblance to the smaller Bandit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 This is the Outlaw scanned from a KK handbook OTOH this is the Outlaw scanned from a KK handbook No ! I am Spartacus ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo565 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Pat You gotta be older than me if you still have books like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Jim, I've been told about the books on models that you look at. (Note I don't say read) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo565 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 the silver fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Ahhh.....tis the lower one I remember..... Could it be that your age as an aeromodeller can be defined by which Outlaw you remember.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly P Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I must be a whippersnapper then as i don't remember either....that or I'm old and this is the first sign of alzheimers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew767 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Plans for the lower version available at Biggles Aero Plans Archive on fleabay.....Oh and no i can't remember the earlier version!......No matter what anyone says!! Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braddock, VC Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I've been googling to find a plan of uncle ivor's bandit, in it's day it was a well respected model, unlike V2 which had a mixed reputation. I have an os 10 fp that needs a home as I've given up even thinking about flying the TT V-Bat to which it's currently attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 Ben Buckle quotes the Keil Kraft Outlaw at £6 in "Powered" section of his plans catalogue. I regret that I haven't done much to Uncle Ivor's specimen because I've been doing up the house for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braddock, VC Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Thanks, Dai (if I dare after yesterday's performance). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 You call that a performance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Jefferies Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 For what it's worth, if you do put single channel in it (and that is what I would do) I am pretty sure I read somewhere ('might have been the BFMA mag) that the Outlaw wings are none to strong. I seem to remember that the writer had folded the wings in a relatively gentle manoeuvre and recommended beefing up the centre section......... Paul Edited By Paul Jefferies on 09/02/2014 13:54:07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Posted by David Davis on 09/02/2014 12:35:56: Ben Buckle quotes the Keil Kraft Outlaw at £6 in "Powered" section of his plans catalogue. That's 21p more expensive than the kit is listed at in my 70s KK Handbook! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Etheridge 1 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Quite right the Outlaw was covered in issue no. 115 of the BMFA news dated December 2012 by Roger Stanton in his 'Nostalgia Notebook' section. Of course the old KK Pirate,Bandit and Outlaw all look much the same and were designed for free flight originally. Hence the need to strengthen their wings to support the additional weight of radio equipment. I did this on an old Mercury Matador with spruce wing and tail spars as covered in an earlier blog. Of course in the distant past radio models were designed like flying bricks and nothing like the old Outlaw. I will scan the BMFA article. MJE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Ah, the Outlaw single channel. My first r/c plane. Twice round the field and into the deck. Repaired, twice round the field and into the deck again. Stuck it in the garage and started to go out with girls. It seemed more fun at the time. Happy days ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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