Seamus O'Leprosy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Reading recently of the launch of a new 2.4ghz system FHSS/S-FHSS by Futaba which is not compatable with the FASST system I use with my 10c.Now it looks like sets from 4ch to 7ch will be FHSS and in the future sets from 8ch up will be both FHSS and FASST, but at the moment only the mega expensive 18mz is so equipped. Who in their right mind is going to buy a 8,10,12 or 14ch transmitter at the moment, and are Futaba going to support both systems? I think not. SO'L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Simmons Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I have a 8FG which I have upgraded to a "super". I am also keen to know which direction Futaba is going. I am not happy that there is a gap between a 8 channel Rx and a 14 channel, I would like to have an option if needed to choose a 10 and 12 channel Rx to suit the model with a price to match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben B Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I've been waiting for the last year or so for a FAAST/FHSS compatible futaba tx with telemetry in the mid-clubman (ie 400-500) type bracket. No sign it's happening soon so my dx8 arrived today! I really want to stick futaba but their dilly-dallying re systems and lack of telemetry is a big problem (for me at least) at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty C Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 spekky all the way for me guys. They have something for everyone I think Rusty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chambers Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Have Futaba gone stark raving mad? Yup in my opinion! Well that's a bit unfair really. The problem lies from when Futaba originally spec'ed their 2.4GHz system, they used a Radio IC from a small manufacturer that had a good spec but a high price tag. Now this would have been chosen to fit into Futaba's old business model of charging high prices for their receiver, to achieve the best possible system solution. However this got turned all on its head once the Chinese got involved. Once the market was flooded with Chinese systems and receivers, such as FrSky, OrangeRx, Flysky, etc - that was not only cheap but also crucially (and some may argue this point), just as reliable as FASST. Either way, I should imagine this has eaten into Futaba's business significantly - especially as Spektrum have taken a huge slice of the market. So now Futaba are stuck with a good technology, but at an expensive price. Note that even the FrSky and Corona FASST compatible receivers are still significantly more than any other in their receiver range. This is down to that expensive Radio IC. Well what can Futaba do? The only thing they can do, change systems to allow them to produce cheaper receivers - beating the Chinese at their own game! So for S-FHSS they use a radio IC from a big manufacturer (Texas Instruments), that also has a good record as a 2.4GHz radio - its used by Hitec/FrSky/Graupner/Multiplex/Jeti. ' range and S-FHSS as the cheaper range. Now obviously they don't want to upset their existing customer base too much, so they have to position FASST as the 'premium' receiver, and S-FHSS for the lower end of the market. Note that they do still say S-FHSS is still good enough for planes from park fliers, to 50cc+ jobs. FASSTest is the new FASST that will have telemetry - so I'm assuming that S-FHSS won't have it, and that will be the differentiator. However Futaba will look silly as other manufacturers start incorporating telemetry into their cheaper transmitters (as Hitec are doing with the Eclipse 7 Pro and obviously Aurora 9 already has it). Note, that there is no reason why they couldn't support telemetry on the S-FHSS system - however there is a distinct lack of any mention of any future telemetry support on the S-FHSS system. Unsurprising as they still haven't got telemetry up on any transmitter yet! The current problem that now lies is with the existing customer base. To support S-FHSS, it will require a hardware upgrade on FASST transmitters. I just hope for Futaba's customer base that they will not only offer this upgrade (given Futaba's track record, this is doubtful), but also at a good price - like Horizon did with the Spektrum DSMX upgrade. Of course some of this is speculation and my take on it, but a lot is out on Futaba's marketing material - such as S-FHSS being the 'more afforable' range and available out there if you know where to look (such as S-FHSS requiring a hardware upgrade - I wrote a post on how I know this on this forum a couple of days ago). Futaba's telemetry solution is apparently coming in the next couple of months I've seen mention on RC-Groups by Hobbico representatives(US distributor for Futaba). I just hope that Futaba users have deep enough pockets for it though, as even basic flight pack voltage monitoring appears to require a sensor! I dread to think the cost when you start using Futaba ESC to get the motor drive current... Edited By Simon Chambers on 09/02/2012 22:57:14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chambers Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Posted by Ben B on 09/02/2012 22:35:33: I've been waiting for the last year or so for a FAAST/FHSS compatible futaba tx with telemetry in the mid-clubman (ie 400-500) type bracket. No sign it's happening soon so my dx8 arrived today! I really want to stick futaba but their dilly-dallying re systems and lack of telemetry is a big problem (for me at least) at this stage. Be aware that you need an additional telemetry transmitter to fit into your model to get even simple pack voltage levels. Down the field I've seen a lot of complaints from Spekky users having trouble binding this and a unreliable data link. Of course, you may have more luck, but from my experience from others, I wouldn't hold out too much expectation on telemetry for the DX8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename-John Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 yep as Seamus say`s, I`ve only got one model memory slot left on my FASST T7C and Ive been eyeing up an 8FG as an upgrade, but I think I`ll hold out a while longer incase they start to make it compatible with these cheaper receivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Wolf Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Me, I'm off to Hitec; using 2.4 module while using ff9 Tx but will convert to Aurora Tx when majority of rx have been replaced and I start regular flying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ashby - Moderator Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Interesting Simon, I can add a little more...... Robbe were displaying new Futaba telemetry gear in Nuremburg last week and it's on their website. There's a new telemetry box that'll operate with both FASSTest and FASST Txs. Edited By David Ashby - RCME Admin on 10/02/2012 06:27:40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamus O'Leprosy Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 David I heard Nuremberg was a tad nippy, with the streets littered with bits that had fallen of brass monkeys. The Robbe units are equally eye watering ?150 for the transmitter attachment and the only compatable 8ch rx is ?130. When will they learn that things have moved on and these prices are no longer acceptable. P.S. any chance of getting the tech guys to fix the site so it accepts euro symbols.Edited By Seamus O'Leprosy on 10/02/2012 06:52:20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ashby - Moderator Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Yes -20 during the day You're right Seamus, they're too expensive although that could be a bit of market positioning by Robbe, we'll see. Traditionally distributors have found they can charge more for the same item in Germany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben B Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Posted by Simon Chambers on 09/02/2012 22:54:21:Posted by Ben B on 09/02/2012 22:35:33: I've been waiting for the last year or so for a FAAST/FHSS compatible futaba tx with telemetry in the mid-clubman (ie 400-500) type bracket. No sign it's happening soon so my dx8 arrived today! I really want to stick futaba but their dilly-dallying re systems and lack of telemetry is a big problem (for me at least) at this stage. Be aware that you need an additional telemetry transmitter to fit into your model to get even simple pack voltage levels. Down the field I've seen a lot of complaints from Spekky users having trouble binding this and a unreliable data link. Of course, you may have more luck, but from my experience from others, I wouldn't hold out too much expectation on telemetry for the DX8. Really? that would be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Simmons Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 mmm. I don't know if the telemetry gear will be useful or a "ball and chain". it gives a height and many flying sites have a ceiling limit which you must not exceed that height. We can guess the height, and experience helps but it can be surprising how much we misjudge distance, more so as we get older and flying different sized models, . When we fly different models, each model may have different flying characteristics and going two mistakes high may well exceed the height limit. I am not saying we do it on purpose but it can be an eye opener and could be better for the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Simmons Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The club buys it for us who are futaba users (To check on us.) Edited By Keith Simmons on 10/02/2012 09:10:15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Interesting stuff...thanks guys. As a lifelong Futaba user I do find it a bit frustrating....Futaba really do seem to have lost their way as far as the mid range sets are concerned. The world has moved on & Futaba seem intent on defying reality & spending a lot of time gazing at their corporate navel as far as I can see...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucksboy Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Up until now I've flown using a Futaba 2.4 6 channel set with Fasst receivers. Seeing the introduction of FHSS on their basic set made me nervous that they would abandon Fasst for the lower end. This is confirmed by an earlier post. So, as the aerial bit has broken on my TX and I need a new one. After a lot of thought I've abandoned Futaba and bought a Hitec Aurora 9. The 6 channel receivers are £35, the TX has all the bells and whistles I'll ever need and RX battery power telemetry is included. Sorry Futaba, I've been very happy but I've jumped ship. All the money invested in FHSS could have been used to reduce Fasst prices somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Simmons Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I agree, reduce the prices and you can get more customers as the unit price reduces with increased sales. Stay the same or increase the price and we customers can and would jump off the ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chambers Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Maybe Futaba will offer S-FHSS upgrade for their existing transmitters with a similar looking unit for FASSTest? Plug it into the buddy box port and hang it off the transmitter handle. Like this system from the states: Hobbico Transmitter-Ready™ (Tx-R) Hobbico - Tactic AnyLink I could see this would be quite attractive to Futaba - as it would allow all their existing range to be quickly upgraded, without having the transmitter back for modification. The AnyLink system I would like. Far too much risk in knocking that cable out of the buddy port! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Green Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Have Futaba gone stark raving mad? I hope not, just jumped to Futaba from JR. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Posted by Simon Chambers on 10/02/2012 10:36:58: Maybe Futaba will offer S-FHSS upgrade for their existing transmitters with a similar looking unit for FASSTest? Plug it into the buddy box port and hang it off the transmitter handle. Like this system from the states: Hobbico Transmitter-Ready™ (Tx-R) Hobbico - Tactic AnyLink I could see this would be quite attractive to Futaba - as it would allow all their existing range to be quickly upgraded, without having the transmitter back for modification. The AnyLink system I would like. Far too much risk in knocking that cable out of the buddy port! Or like Multiplex did for all their older non modular 35 sets, or the FrSky unit which also has telemetry and a built in display. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trex700e Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Yeah Futaba have (in my mind) lost it completely. It was stupid to pay for such over charged receivers and the FHSS vs FASST and thats why i dislike futaba now. I did the right thing and bought a DX8 and havent regretted any of it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Arnold Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 This seems to be a bash Futaba thread!! The way I see it is Futaba has two systems to accomodate both ends of the market. FASST for the top end user and FHSS for the economy user. There seems no plans to discontinue either system and in some cases a bit of cross compatibility. The user choses what he wants Rolls Royce or Ford Focus to use a motoring anology. I am perfectly Happy with my Futaba Fasst system Edited By Keiran Arnold on 10/02/2012 13:27:36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename-John Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I`m not bashing anybody, I too am perfectly happy with Futaba and FASST as a system but i dont see why receivers like the 617 command the price they do, I want to upgrade my TX but I also want cheaper low end receivers for models with less channels, To be perfectly honest as a general club flier I dont need all the bells and whistles of the higher spec but as ive already invested a lot of money into FASST with my existing TX and number of RX`s, its either going to cost me a lot to change everything to a different system or im going to have keep paying high prices for things im not using, whereas if it were cross compatible id be able to seamlessly control existing models and have a choice on higher or lower spec for future. Thats how i think Fuaba are missing the trick, you cant for example say a little 4 channel park flyer needs FASST but if thats the system you have your looking at £50 for a receiver unless you use a compatible, which because of price I will do, whereas if i could use the cheaper 4 channel FHSS with my existing FASST TX id be more inclined to do so and Futaba would be pocketing my money rather than Frsky, Corona etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben B Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 surely what they should do is fit FASST and FHSS to all tx's but have more expensive FAAST receivers and cheaper FHSS ones. Kind of like single conversion and dual conversion used to be. You could fly both with one tx you didn't need to have two tx's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename-John Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 That would just make every TX more expensive tho Ben, for newcomers to the hobby that aren`t going to splurge a load of cash like Seamus said to begin with, the low end 4 to 7 channel TX`s should be FHSS and the higher 8 channel plus should be both FASST and FHSS, so if and when you want to go higher your not having to change everything or having to use 2 different TX for your fleet, then they get the new custom and keep existing customers happy with more choice and lower costs. It looks likely its in the pipeline but they seem to be dragging their heels doing anything or even saying they will, so insted of me buying a nice new TX now, then maybe a few months down the line they upgrade to dual system, I for one wont bother parting with my money until i know more Edited By Codename-John on 10/02/2012 14:43:22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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