Steve B Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Hello all, As it says in the title... i'm not a flyer (yet) and new to building too... my project that i've had on the go for the last 18 months or so is a 1/7th TF P51 gold edition.... was pretty bored one summer and decided i wanted to build something and didn't fancy it beien a boat....(dont have anything against boats...wanted it to be a working model) The man in the Model shop at crossgates advised agaist it with it being a first build but due to my stubborn ness and engineering background i figured i'd give it a go anyway. i've posted some pics in 'a beginners p51' thread but they've uploaded HUGE !!!! if any mods can re-size i'd be very greatful i'll continue the building when the weather warms a bit (bloomin freezing in the garage) and if anyone has tips to help my Cyno allergy (apart from dont use it ...) please please pass them on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly boy3 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Hi John, welcome to the forum, very helpfull guys I can assure you. Re Cyano, ventilation is the best way to work with this stuff. Inhaling Cyano fumes nearly put me in hospital years ago. Good stuff, but deadly fumes. If possible use it out side, or use a fan to move the fumes away from you. Cheers ps good luck with the P51 build. Ps what glues are you using for the build, are you using a lot of Cyano ? Edited By fly boy3 on 01/02/2013 12:54:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Hi Steve, well the best tip I can think of to help with cyno allegy is,....use less cyno! There are plenty of other adhedsives you can work with. Personally I like Aliphatic resins like "SuperPhatic". Straight PVA white wood glue is fine - but doesn't sand as well as aliphatic and tends to have a slightly higher cure time - mainluy because its doesn't penetrate the wood quite as well I think. Epoxies are good for high strength joints - but can be heavy if overused. CA is good were you need a "instant grab" for example. Now, about this P51 of yours - what are you doing about a trainer to learn to fly on first - tell me you're not planing on trying to learn to fly on a P51 BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Travis Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Welcome.Good luck with the build this is a great hobby !Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly P Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Steve - also try 5 star adhesives for cyano which will not set you off so much too. For the flying start with a basic trainer, not a p51. Olly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Steve - welcome. I also have an alergy to cyano. It sets off asthma and mucas production which affect me for days and can make me quite ill. You may find, as I have that your sensitivity to it gets worse. The 5 star adhesive product is definately much better than many and worth a try but the best solution if you do have an alergy is avoid it as much as possible. I would second the use of Aliphatic Resin [Titebond Origional is great] It is nice to work with, easy to clean up, and easy to sand. It is a bit slower but if you have room you can work on a few bits at the same time. There are many who would reguard it as a far superior glue to cyano. I would say that under no circumstances should you ever use Pound Shop type cyano. It affects me much much more than the 5star stuff, and in practice is no cheaper. Mr 5 star adhesives has a thread somewhere where he suggests that there are some very nasty solvents in it to thin it. I am so sensitive to it that if someone opens a bottle of it while I am in the room, I would be affected by it. Mrs 5 star adhesives also suggested trying a bowl of hot water near where you are working. Apparenty the water vapor and steam reduce the effect of the airborn fumes. And finally, anoter option for those times when there is little alternative to cyano, try an odourless or foam safe product. It is much more expensive, but doesn't affect me at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 The Crossgates Model Shop assistant is dead right about your choice of "trainer" aircraft. Trying to fly a Mustang as a first model is doomed from the start. Please take the advice of your helpful model shop - they are there to help and make you the best choice for learning. Best thing is go back and ask to look at trainer aircraft. Then after about 6 models later, you can maybe fly the mustang, but not before. You know it makes sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 When I was looking in Wickes a few weeks ago I noticed they sell a bathroom extractor fan & ducting for about 30 pounds which looks the sort of thing for air extraction. Kitchen fans are bigger & dearer but might be better. Of course this needs some hole through to outdoors so it might not be practical everywhere. For further ideas look at the Axminster catalogue & website for details of how dust extraction is done using 4inch soilpipe and fittings they sell to get the hose near the work.. Of course woodwork dust really needs proper dust extractors not bathroom fans, but you will get the idea. Regarding starting flying, we all want to start with a nice scale job but the reality is we need a basic trainer. Start building a trainer indoors now while the weather is cold. Just do the messy bit in the garage and set up a little bench indoors using a Workmate ( or cheap clone from Screwfix, etc ) Get a copy of the current RCME before the new one comes out on the 8th for the free plan Jemima ( for electric) or get a Bushwacker ( for glow ) plan or kit from Ben Buckle. Or get a Tyro Major plan ( 10 pound ) and wing ribs ( 7.50 ) from DB Sport & Scale. Or their DB Mascot kit. Or anything to make a suitable trainer. Use white PVA glue such as Evostik Wood Adhesive Resin W ( green bottle in DIY shops ) or aliphatic. Just do a few bits each day and let glue dry overnight or use several small boards and work on tailplanes, fin etc whilst fus or wings dry. Edited By kc on 01/02/2013 16:27:24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Welcome from me also Steve..... Didn't Hangar 9 or someone sell a P51 with slats & flaps & airbrakes that was suitable for a first timer?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Ooo... no its a Topflite kit.......looks like you are doing a great job there Steve but make this a 3rd or even 4th model.....you need to learn to fly on a trainer first & then graduate to the P51 via a low wing aerobatic trainer... It would be a shame to see the model revert to "kit form" on its first flight..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Posted by GrahamC on 01/02/2013 15:10:12: Mrs 5 star adhesives also suggested trying a bowl of hot water near where you are working. Apparenty the water vapor and steam reduce the effect of the airborn fumes. I would hesitate to recommend this method of ameliorating the effects of cyano. It may make you feel better in the short term but could have unexpected consequences. Humidifying cyano fumes was one of the methods we used to enhance the development of latent fingerprints, which resulted in the deposition of a white solid where the fumes reacted with the amino acids, proteins, etc, to be found in fingerprints - or within one's lungs...... Everyone, regardless of your reaction to it, should be aware that it is wise to use cyano in a well-ventilated room and take a break from time to time. Use foam-safe cyano or better still, if you have anything more than a mild response to cyano, avoid it altogether and use aliphatic or the other adhesives available to us. Here endeth the lesson.......... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve B Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Hi all and many thanks for all the advice re cyno.... i use aliphatic as much as i can now and only cyno when i have to,,, effects me pretty much straight away too... i've got a fan in garage to blow most away and work with the door open... hence why no winter building As for the flying, there is no way i would consider even trying to fly it...no matter how much i'm enjoying the build i dont really want it to be a re-build ha ha... read some right horror stories on p51 build threads of first flight crashes...dont want to join the list!! when its built i would like willing skilled volunteers to take her up...for the foreseeable gonna build a dc3 next ha ha i'll fly that one (joking to the fly bit) Thanks again all for the warm welcome and please contribute where you can to ' a beginners p51' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I can't stand using normal cyano either and if I have to use it it is Zap-o, foam safe CA and it is odorless..ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I can't use normal CA but I can use Deluxe products Rocket odourless CA.. MInd you, I don't use it much as Aliphatic resin is much better. At least you chose a P-51 Mustang. 99% of people in your position insist on a Spitfire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave 8 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Just thought I would add my two pence worth regarding glues. I am new to the buiding business but I have been using D4 from Everbuild which I bought from Toolstation. It is a PVA based adhesive but with the advantage of quick setting but not so quick that you cannot move things about to get it right. It unfortunately has a short shelf life according to the bottle but it is cheap enough to throw away if it does go off. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Steve, you dont want a " willing volounteer" to fly your scale model -- there will always be plenty of volunteers willing to risk someone elses beautiful model! The people who volunteer are usually not the people you want. You want to ask around at your club well beforehand to find who is the most suitable person who has experience of that type of model and is good at test flying.. Then ask him, probably he would be the last person to push himself forward in the queue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve B Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 yeah that makes sense... The guy in my local model shop is a club member so will prob have best idea of who is better qualified so he will be my first approach...when i finally get it finished that is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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