Basic 3D

[Jonathan Vincent]

I would just like to congratulate Mike Keay. His design is outstanding. My son Tristan has been flying for a year and he needed a new more challenging model. The Basic 3D has provided him with many ours of fun flying and is his favorite model. I liked it so much myself that we have now built two (see our album)and have a great time flying together. I hope to see others enjoying this aircraft.

[colin borthwick]

Jonathon,I'll second your congrats,I built the Basic 3d also.I extended the span up to 1800mm [hope you dont mind,Mike] and fitted an OS 61FX.It's performance is quite an eye-opener for me.An excellent 'plane. Colin

[Myron Beaumont]

Have just finished a" Ruperts Dad" Have never flown a 3 D before (only Curare type old fashioned m/c's) Any advice for keeping it in one piece for the summer ? Will it go wild on me (such big throws Eh! )Advice please !(SC52FS installed)

[Andy Gates]

Sorry to resurect an old thread but I have now built one of these superb machines.

 

I was looking for a replacement for my worn out and distressed Piwakawaka and found this plan in my collection.

 

For those not famliar with the Piwakawaka, it is a small highy aerobatic electric powered machine designed to be easily packed way for holidays and that sort of thing.

 

It has taken 2 weeks of evenings to build, mine is electric powered and weighs under 3 1/2 lbs. The undercarriage has been modified to a pattern used by StevensAeros.

 

So far I have only flown her 3 times but she slows down beautifully for landing and stops in about 5 yards .

I am looking forwards to wringing her out a little more over this weekend.

 

 

Edited By Andy Gates on 18/11/2011 22:29:31

[kc]

Mike Keay's Basic 3D is a good plans built substitute for a Wot4. A clubmate built one and it flew beautifully. I was very impressed.

It deserves to be better known! Maybe a more distinctive name would have helped?

 

Anyone who is interested in the Basic 3D should see the online full constructional article on this site, it's on page 11 of the RCME online articles and this particular article is free to download ( not just for subscribers as was the case a few months back )

[Andy Gates]

Agreed KC

 

Flew mine again today, multiple times.

 

Seems that I can't land this badly even when missing a wheel!

 

Control responses are sharp yet gentle.

[kc]

Andy, 3 1/2 pounds seems very light. Is it the clipped wing or full wing span? And what motor & battery is used?

I must say I didn't think this could be built that light, so it didn't seem suitable for low power electric. At 3 1/2 pounds it might suit my requirements.

[Andy Gates]

I modded this one to be light KC.

 

Most of the time I fly from football fields so I need a light quick rise slow fly plane.

 

The wing is actually a mixture of both wing shapes, I built the wings to the short wing plan but as a 2 piece wing, a 1/8" ply full depth wing joiner running between the upper and lower spars with 1/16" webs between on both sides for the 1st 3 ribs. The spars are 1/8" x 1/4" spruce mounted vertically.

The wing tips are from 1/8" balsa and run to the wide wing tip pattern but squared off and supported by 2 triangular wedges on top and 1 underneath.

 

Sides are 3/32" balsa, longerons are 3/32" balsa, no ply other than F1 (1/8") and a 3 x 1/8" ply sandwich to hold my modified landing gear.

 

Motor was aquired from Giant Cod, it is a 2826/5 on a 12 x 6 APC E prop. This runs on a 3S 3000mAH pack for around 15 mins.

 

Thread can be found on another forum here

Edited By Andy Gates on 19/11/2011 22:47:24

[kc]

Andy, that's really good info.

I am still not sure what type of u/c you used. Is it the Boddington style torque rod u/c with one piece for each wheel across the fus? Or the vintage style 1 piece torque rod u/c?

 

I have to say I prefer the all balsa construction to lots of liteply.

Is it fair to say it's almost a new design as far as construction, just utilising the same aerodynamic ideas? Frankly I reckon RCME should publish your modified design!

[Andy Gates]

Aw, thanks for the compliment but it is really me just adding my own spin on the origional excellent design.

I have learned to build to fly not to build to survive crashes, beieve me it makes a whol world of difference to the planes performance.

 

As to the landing gear it is neither and both.

 

Let me describe it.

 

First off it is 2 separate legs, the upper hidden part has a 90 degree bend in the top just under 25mm or 1" from the end.

 

The u/c sandwich is made up of 3 pieces of 1/8" birch ply all identical in size.

The width is the size of the fuselage inside the doublers.

The height is around 25mm or 1".

The central piece of the sandwich has cut outs for the tops of the legs going from the outside corners inwards about 45 degree angle, with the top of the leg bends being inserted about 5mm from the top edge.

 

The sandwich is then fixed with layers of epoxy holding the sandwich together and surrounding the upper legs. Once dry a fine sanding to maintain the shape.

 

The mounting in the fuselage is a tight fitting 1/8" balsa box with sheet triangle reinforcements attached to the doublers to hold the front panel in place. Rear part of the box is the lower section of F2.

 

Have a look at the RV4 instruction manual at Stevens Aero which will show better than I can describe.

 

Tested the flying quallities of this properly today.

Flies better than I planned for, without using the flaperons I could get her down to a slow walking pace still in full control. Amazing.

 

She was the first bird to fly as the fog was almost lifting.

White wings are not the best colour for flying in fog, but since I can fly her close in there was not too much of an issue, just a very intense concentration not to loose sight of her in the mirk.

 

Yell if you need more info or pictures

Edited By Andy Gates on 20/11/2011 17:35:27

[kc]

I absolutely agree about building to fly not survive crashes. It amazes me how difficult it is to persuade people to build light so it crashes lighter or probably escape the crash entirely even in a crisis.

Thanks for the u/c description. The Stevens diagram made it clearer. Unusal design to me. i have to say I favour the Boddo torque design though, because it enables the u/c to be fitted after covering. Also easy to straighten at the field without removal.

 

It seems to me this the Basic 3D is what everyone needs for general flying, engine testing etc unless one has a Wot4 / Uglystik / Rival etc Your lightweight electric version would appear to be just what we all need for winter flying. ie a model for all weathers and aerobatic or vintage style flying to choice. I am very tempted to build one!

 

Andy, I see you too live in Essex......what club do you fly with?

[Steve W-O]

I notice that the OP lived and flew in Bulawayo, and the post was over four years ago.

 

I hope he is still able to live and fly there.

 

Very interesting plane though, I think more and more people are having to fly in less than ideal places, and anything that helps with that is worth knowing about.

 

That instruction manual for the RV4 is very good, haven't seen one as good as that before.

[Andy Gates]

KC

 

I would say give it a shot.

I really got attached to mine today although some did not believe me when I told them how much it weighed until I put it in their hands.

 

Re the u/c, mine just slides into the slot underneath the fuselage, no fixings required and fitted after covering as you describe. Had to remove it to get it into the car with the other 3 planes today.

 

True I live in Essex but I do not belong to any club.

I find the club scene quite frustrating with too much politics and not enough safe enjoyable flying.

I prefer to fly with groups of like minded modellers who want to fly and have safe fun, none of the "my machine is better than yours" or the keeping up with the Joneses.

I look for comradeship and a warm friendly atmosphere, devoid of hassle and officialdom.

 

As I stated in the earlier post, I fly from the space of 2 football fields attached to a park which is surrounded with obstructions, buildings, a hillock and trees. This bird not only goes up but also comes down quite safely within this space.

 

Where abouts are you? Maybe we could meet up sometime so you can see my bird fly for yourself? I think that would compel you to build this.

 

Steve

 

If you have not seen instructions like that before, just wait until you see the kit.

Stunning, can be put together in your hands without glue.

Amazingly light and great performance from a fairly basic set up, totally suited to park flying.

Edited By Andy Gates on 20/11/2011 19:28:40

[kc]

The Basic 3D lite electric version does seem to be the sort of model I need, but it has to wait until other projects are finished! However for the sake of anybody else who wants to build an electric version now perhaps you could answer the following points which are puzzling me. ( although I could fathom this out for myself it’s better to follow a proven design! )

Is the u/c just a push fit? Or is there a clip to stop it falling out in flight?
Is the front former moved forward and is the nose slimmed down?
Is there still downthrust & sidehrust?
Does the top block detach to form a hatch or did the Lipo need to go under the CG/ wing?
Wing bolts appear to be used so is F2 extended up for dowels?
Are there any fuselage doublers?
Wing rib material & size

Are the aileron servos mounted in a rib as the original?

 

 

[Andy Gates]

OK KC.

Answers to the questions

 

1. Yes & no

 

Sorry could not resist.

 

U/C is push fit, the ply sandwich being a tight fit in the box described in previous posting, so no further catch is required. Never yet had one of these systems drop out.

 

Front former is as per the plan in size and location with the plan amount of side and down thrust. A very slight tweak may be needed after a thorough testing but so far not noticable.

I did add a second layer of ply on the front face to increase the thickness for the motor retention screws to have a better grip. Motor wires come out of F1 below the motor.

 

The battery access is as you guessed, the front hatch is the front part of the cover above the space between F1 & F2, the rearmost part left attached to the plane and reinforced with a small piece of triangle balsa beween it and F2 which holds the front of the wing in place.

The hatch is held at the rear by a tongue and at the front by a spring latch locating in a small blind hole in the back of F1.

 

My 3000mAH lipo does require it to go through F2 which has been adjusted to fit. F2 is a 4 piece balsa item not the sheet item shown.

 

Rear of the wing is held by plastic bolts, they fit into a 1/8" ply plate fixed to the fuselage with epoxy between the fuselage sides and attached to F3.

The plate has 2 holes drilled and tapped to suit the bolts. These threaded holes have been strengthened with thin CA after tapping, and retapped again after the CA has orked its way into the py.

 

Fuselage doublers are fitted as per the plan from VERY thin ply 1/64" or 1/32"

 

Wing ribs again as per the plan from 1/16" balsa with the tip rib and the first 3 ribs on each panel from 1/8" balsa.

All ribs capped with 1/16" capping strips top and bottom except the area shown on the inboard sections which are fully sheeted.

 

Webs from vertical 1/16" balsa throughout, first 2 bays having the webs on both sides of the spars.

 

Wing servos I glued straight to the rib with the splined section abover the rib cap, added 1/16" sheet around the servo on non rib side to give the covering somethig to attach to.

 

My bird could be lighter with the use of film covering all over, but I had some solatex to hand so I used that on the wings and tail feathers.

 

I will post some more pictures to help the explanations.

[Andy Gates]

Here goes, photos.

 

1st off "that" undercarriage

in pieces.

 

The sandwich

 

half way in

 

all the way in

 

I hope those explain the system I have used.

Edited By Andy Gates on 21/11/2011 21:11:17

[Andy Gates]

Now the hatch

 

in situ

 

the cover

 

the reinforcement and where the tongue goes.

 

Wing bolts

 

and the fastening plate at the back of the bay

 

and finally the front wing & hatch retainer

Edited By Andy Gates on 21/11/2011 21:12:56

[kc]

Andy, again excellent info and I reckon lots of people will have absorbed the details as about 480 people have viewed this so far. Thanks for your efforts.

 

I have noticed a couple of things,

The front former does not appear to have much ( visual ) side or downthrust.

The motor seems to be on a lower thrustline than the plan?

Maybe an optical illusion?

 

You said fus doublers as per plan but I notice a lack of 1/4 wing seat, so maybe you eliminated all the balsa doublers and fitted just a thinner ply doubler?

The wing LE is quite massive on the plan, did you change that?

 

Really one could say your plane is almost a completely new design just using existing tail components and wing section! That would make it worthy of publication in my mind! ( with due acknowledgement to Mike Keay's original IC design of course) Maybe you should give it a catchy name?

Anbody who is contemplating building a Wot4, Limbo Dancer, Uglystik etc should consider this design either in original IC version or the light electric one shown here.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Posted by kc on 22/11/2011 13:18:58:

Maybe you should give it a catchy name?

The Gates Electric Lighten-ing perhaps....(groans)

[Andy Gates]

The right and down thrust are as per the plan which is approx 3 degrees or 1/8" displacement so it must be an optical illusion.

 

Because it is not IC powered, I fitted the motor centrally in the vertical plane and offset to the left (see the smaller former) which places the prop smack in line with the centre of the F1 former.

 

1/4" wing seat is not needed since I have no dowels to hold the bands down and also with it being bolted I do not need the additional thickness to reduce lower wing damage.

No 1/4" seat helps reduce the weight.

The ply doubler has been ftted for strength in the fuselage forward section and does not add much weight because it is so thin.

 

Leading edge was not much different to the plan.

I fitted a strip of 1/8" x 1/4" balsa through 1/8" wide 1/4" deep slots in the fronts of the ribs in a central position to add some support to hold the ribs in position and to add strength.

The rib profile was moved forward slightly so I could use 3/8" balsa for the LE.

Upper and lower sheeting was butt joined behind the LE balsa before sanding down the LE to shape.

 

I still consider that I am just adding my spin to an existing design to suit my needs, as opposed to a design.

Thanks for the thought though and many thanks for the corny name Steve, the effort is appreciated.

 

I have one machine in my collection which I would declare as my own design but the plan is too poor for publication in my opinion.

It has been suggested that I sort the plan out for publishing, but I built it for sentimental reasons so I do not feel happy sorting it out right now. Maybe at a later date.

That design and build thread is found here

Edited By Andy Gates on 22/11/2011 17:16:36

[kc]

Again very full info, thanks Andy.

The notch to hold wing LE instead of dowels is interesting and would seem less work than dowels.

 

The Fairey Gordon on the build thread you referred to is magnifiicent and the story behind it fascinating. And a plan for the Fairey, in due time. would be very worthwhile in my opinion.

[David Ashby - Moderator]

A new laser / cnc kit for the Basic 3D is now available.

[Del Wheatley]

Can anyone point me in the direction of the right sized 4 stroke for this plane please?

[Phil 9]

I have just got hold of the plan for this model. Is it just an Ugly Stick variation or is it different/better than that? What is the Knife edge performance like?

As for DW's question I the reccomended 2 stroke is 40-53 so that would be 52-70 4 stroke