Pick a plane 2008

[A.A. Barry]

Terry, if you/ or any one else,  are interested in the publication , my Email, is [email protected] will only be to glad to pass it on. Barry

[A.A. Barry]

Graham Dean, Thanks for your support, Ta,  Barry 

[Terence Lynock]

My mistake, the Peregrine had quite a few problems with the heads as I recall, a model fitted with electric motors can maintain that nice clean nacelle shape with no ugly cylinder heads sticking out to spoil it.

What was the R.R Kestrel engine fitted to by the way?,

                               regards,        Terry

[Andrew Gillie]

As a first time visitor I have to agree with Barry, go the Whirlwind. Cheers to all

Andrew

[Mike T]

Well, despite Barry's "advocacy"  -  I vote for the Whirlwind as well  

2nd choice would be the lovely, lovely Catalina.

Both for 3-400W electrics.  Large enough to be interesting, small enough to be relatively cheap to equip and hand launch.

 No third choice, but what about a Lysander/Storch "Dogfight Double" some time in the future?...

rgds,

 Mike

[A.A. Barry]

Terry L. I think the "Kestral" was fitted into either the " Hind" or the" Fury", Maybe some of the other guys might help.  I am not certain.   Barry 

[Terence Lynock]

I did have a nice book on RR piston aero engines but as usual it is now in someone elses library, I cant remember if the Peregrine was a developement of the Kestrel with a new top end which is what caused a lot of problems with unreliability and that aint good when the Bosch are using you for target practice,

                         regards,   Terry

[A.A. Barry]

 Terry L, consulting my book, it says that the"Peregrine was a new 12cyl. "v" liquid cooled R/R engine, a later development of the"Kestral" , widely used by the RAF in the1930's. they had little potential for further development and were rated at 885hp.". That's it in the "short version", so in essence you are correct. Barry

[Erfolg]

I thought that the peregrine was a stepping stone towards the Merlin. I understood that it was via the Kestrel. Which was unique for RR in that it was a cast aluminium block, designed by Rowledge? of Napier's (joined RR). He copied (as all good engineers do) the techniques that Packard used on their D12. Part of its performance came from increased Octane Rating and pressurized cooling system (reducing weight). The motor ran its supercharger at low altitude to produce more power. Where as most ran the supercharger to get power at altitude. This is before two stage superchargers.

Just used in Whirlwind and Gloster F9/37 (as an alternative).

Part  of the engines problems was its small cc, because planes were rapidly getting bigger (hence the Merlin), to get more fire power, speed and fuel load went up to. To get over this lack of power it was then coupled together in pairs to make the Vulture in a so called "X" configuration.

A book i had, claimed that the Merlins made by the Ford motor company (redesigned to productionise)  in Trafford Park Manchester were far superior to RR. In that they were cheaper to make, more reliable and produced slightly more power on average, and were produced in greater numbers .

RR at the time had a reputation deserved or not of producing good initial concepts, with poor reliability, needing lengthy development..

Erfolg

[A.A. Barry]

Well,  Erfolg, Thanks  that's a bit of history, for most of us. Barry

[eugene jordan]

1.Sea fury        60 size

2.Hurricane    60 size

3.Lysander     60 size

[Brian Clamp]

my vote goes to the Consolidated Catalina.

It has been a dream of mine to build one from scratch so a set of free plans would save me a lot of time.

[A.A. Barry]

HI, guys Just A Pic of the Westland Whirlwind, for those who might not  know what one looks like, Very elegant is'nt it????. It's one of those "planes" that you have to admire.

[A.A. Barry]

The Race.... continuing on..............."at the 600 mt. mark"....." not much has changed, except the breese has picked up a little ( and the noise from the crowd)" ........" Whirlwind  has moved up by a long neck on Lysander"....."Hurricane is still behind the front leaders"......" Stuka  alongside her,"..." then it's"........" Mossie, a neck in front of Beaufigther,"....... "Cataliner is pacing well,".......Fury is making her move"....."close behind is Chipmunk,"............ "Skyraider is battling on," ......."and Storch  a long head in front of Me109".....................(a quick glance at the crowd)....... "Gotcha",Says the inspector, ( I can lip read), as he steps out from behind the hay bales,, "the men in white" pounce on the felon, quickly, and the Bobbys arrive, huffing and puffing  and "gently" grasp him, by that region that is better left unexplained, and march him off, "he'l have some explaining" to do. Hopfully I can find out after the race, but from up here, they have missed something in the struggle, the bobbys have dropped one of there "tazer guns", in the hay. The inspector  has gone back to sampling the feedlots, not noticing the gun  hidden ..............and over in the "shrubbery", looks as tho the Knights of Neec(nic) have asked that bloody Frenchman for  afternoon tea  and snacks, what a turn around..................  Bee

[Rob Cope]

Hi Barry,

My book on RR (the orange one) says the Peregrine is a Kestrel with a contra-rotation facility; the twin engines turning different directions to provide stability - especially important on take off. (Modellers beware?) It also added a down-draught carburettor to streamline the air intake - also used on the Buzzard 'R' racing engine.

This contra-rotation involved fabricating handed components for the engines - a concept dropped on later developments. The illustration in the book however shows a whirlwind with propellers that rotate in the same direction from the visible angle of the blades! Perhaps two clockwise peregrines fitted?

Regards, Rob

[A.A. Barry]

 Thanks Rob, the Photos of the Peregrine do show 2 "downdraugths carby's" but  does not say anything about counter rotating props, I think the P38 did, but if that is correct , then that is news to all Whirlwind "followers" AS you, perhaps it was an experiment,????  dunno!!     Erfolg may be able to help?????????  Barry

[Graham Thompson]

beaufighter

mosquito

catalina

[Chris Collins]

I've personally always wanted to have a Westland Whirlwind as a model, but then, I do prefer the less common models.

 2nd would be the Stuka with the Storch finishing a close 3rd.

[Erfolg]

Barry

I am no expert.

Referring to "Plane Makers 2" Westland,by David Monday, Pub Janes.

Both the Lysander and Whirlwind were designed by Teddy Petter (amongst other Westland aircraft) he went on to the Canberra and Lightening I believe.

Any way the interesting bit to you. "Those installed in the first prototype (L6844) were geared to provide counter rotating, or handed propellers". This implies that only the prototype was handed. I could not find any reference to the production aircraft.

I recently read that there is a correct and wrong way for assigning the rotation of counter rotating twins. Trouble is I can not remember the reference or the reasoning.

The P38 had counterotating propellers, unless ordered by HM Government procurement, then they did not, nor did they have superchargers. I wonder why the RAF found the performance disappointing?

Erfolg

[Rob Cope]

Hi Erfolg,

Thanks for clearing that one up. That'll mean the model won't need to be counter-rotating either hopefully

Regards, Rob.

[Erfolg]

I have just looked up in"Interceptor Fighters for the Royal Airforce 1935-45", Michael JF Bowyer, pub PSL." the history of the Whirlwind. Page 164 provides the answer

Comparative trials with the first prototype followed for, trying the French idea, the latter had the engines/propellers rotating in the opposite directions whereas those of the second machine rotated one way. Tests showed the additional complication of handed engines was not worthwhile.

The section goes on to detail a number of problems about buffeting of the tail, problems with flow separation around the nacelles. That is before the shortcomings of a myriad issues with the engines and other subcontractor components. There is a lot of detail regarding the Whirlwind throughout the book. After reading it you can understand why production of the model was terminated. Good as it was, there were many other aircraft types with issues that needed solving.

There is still some ambiguity on the engines, as this book implies a clockwise rotating engine, the other states that the clockwise rotation was achieved via gearing

Erfolg

[A.A. Barry]

 SO, there you are!!!!!," Erfolg", to the "nuts & bolts bit", as to the "tail buffeting" complaint, it  was redeemed by the larger "acorn" on the production models fitted on the fin/ tailplane join, so my book states, I have read somewhere that the ( from the pilot's seat) that the L/H engine turned "counterclockwise"?  on the P38, I assume that this would apply to the Whirlwind , If it was fitted...Thanks for the info,...         Barry

[Andrew Thomson]

Spoilt for choice, but in the interests of something relatively rare in .60 size models that is WW2 / military , should fly well and not need retracts to look or fly correctly :

1).Lysander

2).Chipmunk

3).Fiesler Storch

Andy.

[Melvyn Brown]

1.             Catalina

2.             Catalina

3.             Catalina

[John Porter]

OK GUYS. MY CHOICES ARE, 

1. WESTLAND WHIRLWIND

2.WESTLAND LYSANDER

3.DOUGLAS SKYRAIDER