Lee Smalley Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Beb to be fair expecting a poop aeroplane costing so little is asking a bit to much, it will be very average at most things at best, ifyou want a model for everything then an electric typhoon is hard to beat, fast aerobatic and thermals quite well when to flick the camber in, energy retention is good to, but there again we are talking about a model that costs 10 times when p2000 does, but then again its 10 times better, you pays your money you makes your choice!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly P Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Posted by Lee Smalley on 04/06/2013 10:22:25: Beb to be fair expecting a poop aeroplane costing so little is asking a bit to much, it will be very average at most things at best, ifyou want a model for everything then an electric typhoon is hard to beat, fast aerobatic and thermals quite well when to flick the camber in, energy retention is good to, but there again we are talking about a model that costs 10 times when p2000 does, but then again its 10 times better, you pays your money you makes your choice!!! 10 times better? Depends on what I want from it and my expectations of it! If I pay ~£60 for an aircraft I have some expectations of how much fun I can have with it, if I pay ~£600 I have different expectations. The point with the P2000 is that the fun to cost ratio is quite good for most purchasers, BEB seems to be looking for a different element of fun than this, or from his posts, any glider can provide - horses for courses as they say. BEB - in all seriousness I would recommend a day on the Orme in a decent blow, especially with Tim and the guys, if you still don't enjoy Gliding then, maybe it just isn't for you. In which case I'll hapilly help you dispose of the P2000 into my shed..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 The essence of the issues have been captured in most if not all the previous posts. Gliding is a challenge of a type not appreciated by IC flyers. To some extent Dickster has highlighted one of the self imposed elements (just as golfing does), that makes thermalling a major challenge. Of a regulated launch height etc., which no longer is constrained to some extent by the line or bungee. As an a side launch heights were never the same, dependant on line strength, wing strength, towers or bungee strength (stretch). Now with height cut offs, things have never been more equal. Model sailplane aerobatics has never really had much following, in my opinion done for fun mainly. Again slope soaring is yet another discipline , related, but a whole lot different, in general to thermal gliding. At heart as suggested I suspect that BEB is (again) as suggested an IC man, pure and simple. Yet the world of electric gliders has a lot to commend it, often requiring as much as skill, in some cases more than mainstream IC. Particularly if we think F3b atc. It takes self discipline to lay of the throttle, particularly as with a big Lipo, it is possible to stay up all day. If you have a AVA or Bubbledancer.etc., in ideal conditions, then the skill is hitting the spot, exactly on the slot time. Change the conditions or model type and the challenges change with them. Then again BEB you could be our next world champion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Smalley Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 olly go fly a typhoon before trying to compare, go fly your p2000 off the orme in a good blow then fly a fully ballasted typhoon typhoon (which to be honest is a cheap mouldie) and you will change your mind, and the cost is not 600 quid mate! way less than that. BEB if you are after the sort of performance i think your after then to expect it from a very cheap airframe your are expecting way too much, the multiplex blizzard is much better than the p2000, but then again the typhoon is another level altogether, but the money is exponentially bigger along with the fun. it depends how much you are prepared to spend, if that is only 78$ then you only get 78$ worth of performance! as i said before you pays your money you makes your choice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly P Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Lee - Fair enough! I don't have a p2000, yet. I have flown Dave G's though, and while I have not flown a Typhoon I have flown a decent mouldie, again a 'try out' I can't remember which one it was. I stand by my statment that it is down to expectations of performance - I have different expectations of a sub £100 aircraft to those of a £200+ craft, even if they have some common basic levels needed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Smalley Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 agreed for the cost i am not sure what BEB expects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly P Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 As I say if BEB wants to head to the Orme I am sure some of the guys will show him some sloping, and probably let him try some other things - to see if the problem is the aircraft or gliding as an aspect of the hobby..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Smalley Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 i am lucky to have flown the p2000 the blizzard and the typhoon, yes its a lot of money about 400 quid fitted out, but the typhoon blows them out of the water.... but considering the cost...it should!! my own opinion here and the blizzard proved this for me, i loved my blizzard, but there are a few problems the foam after a year or two of abuse goes sloppy and perfomance really suffers, and the flying becomes no fun, the P2000 would suffer much the same i suspect, so if you want a nice little machine costing a few pennies that you can potter around with for a year or two then it will probably do, if you want a bit more fun and speed in an airframe that will last you years (as long as you dont smash it) then a cheap mouldie is the way to go, especially if you can get an electric fus, and then the fun is twice fold, you can either get a glider fus as well or take the blades off for slope. so if you can find the money stop buying the foam models and try a luna or typhoon, you may never go back to a foamie again. obviously not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to do that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Smith 7 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 A powered glider can be neither fish nor fowl, not good at soaring and not good under power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stringer Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I looked at having the P2000 for christmas - compared it with the Radian Pro and the like ... then thought it looked quite a lot of bird for the wing span and so probably wasn't going to thermal as well as i would have liked. So what did i do with my £150 Xmas cash? .. I bought a 2m span ST ASW28 RTF (inc TX and RX but no lipo) from KLMS for £75 and a Wilga 2000 with 4 lipo packs from HK! Two for the price of one! I have flown the ST twice and it is a lovely floaty bird (and loops and rolls!) and I am heading to the Great Orme on Thursday evening to meet whoever is up there (my first slope soaring venture) - though it may blow the wings off the ST so i may take the Discus and Cirrus as backups (though the Cirrus is 33 years old now so it will probably blow the wings off that too!!) So in my view (personal only - LOL!) the ST2000 is what it is .. a powered glider that can do a bit of both and probably best off a slope but if you want a thermal soarer I prefer to go with a large span .. the Cirrus at 10ft is just beautiful and i have only ever flown it off a bungee with many flights where i have bought it down through fear the receiver battery would be going flat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Strange that BEB has not posted on this thread for a while? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Pique, I imagine - we fellow mods have been giving him some stick in the backroom! Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 Noooo! I'm watching and reading! I'll be back when I've digested it all! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_B Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Posted by Tony Smith 7 on 04/06/2013 16:59:39: A powered glider can be neither fish nor fowl, not good at soaring and not good under power. Totally disagree with that statement, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 SLOPE I TELL YOU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 LOL! I've decided to run my own competition. A climb and glide contest. 20 seconds power then how long can you stay in the air? The contestants will be,...in the red corner the P2000, in the blue corner my very battered Parkzone Extra 300. I reckon I'm in with a chance with the Extra personally! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Gawd..... theres no hope for the lad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gilder Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I feel that I should put in my 2 pence worth now. I have had my P2000 for quite some time now. I bought it as a model I could pop in the car and have a quick fly up the field with, that would also do me for when I attend PSS events and the slope lift has gone and there is no other way to fly. I have my model set up to be quite a gentle flyer whilst still able to complete graceful aero's. However, over the last weekend, I witnessed a P2000 set up completely differently and able to pull quite a turn of speed and be fully aerobatic. Okay, so not in the same class as a mouldie, but non the less, it certainly made mine look like a pussy cat!! I enjoy all aspects of the modelling world, from 3 channel to full on scale, and while some of these really get the heart pumping and the beads of sweat forming on the forehead, I also enjoy the skill of hunting around for lift.... Be that flat field thermal soaring or low lift conditions on the slope! I also find that it hones my skills for the inevitable dead stick landing when flying power! (They always happen when you least expect it). So to conclude... The P2000 is a cheap model, it is never going to be, nor does it claim to be on a par wih mouldies or as aerobatic as a 3D model. But it IS what it is. A great throw in the car model capable of flat field and slope flying with minimal outlay. It can be a gentle lady or it can be set up (with the right Tx and mixes) to be quite aerobatic - certainly great for someone learning aero's. I for one love my P2000. Whilst I fully understand where BEB is coming from, I urge him not to deliver his final judgement until all aspects of the models flight areas have been tried. In oher words. Go for a days slope flying. Dave Edited By David Gilder on 04/06/2013 23:36:01 Edited By David Gilder on 04/06/2013 23:38:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouncebounce crunch Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Looks like a group of you will have to tie him to a chair, duct tape over mouth, put him in the back of a van, and take him to a couple of good sites just to see what he is missing. oh the shame bbc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gilder Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 BEB, We have our club efficiency comp coming up nex week and I'm using my P2000 for it! I reacon it has a very good chance!! I will let you know!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 Posted by bouncebouncecrunch on 04/06/2013 23:35:07: Looks like a group of you will have to tie him to a chair, duct tape over mouth, put him in the back of a van, and take him to a couple of good sites just to see what he is missing. oh the shame bbc I reckon that's the only way you'll ever get me up the Orme on a windy day! Mountains and hills are for looking at - from sea level. I live on the coast, the highest place in the Wirral is about 70 feet! I get a nose bleed and start hyper-ventilating for lack of oxygen if I go to the sixth floor at work! BEB PS Erf - Llandudno is about 1:30 from me. You probably could do it in a hour but I think the "boys in blue" might have a comment or two about that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gilder Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Come on BEB. I can make it to the Orme in about 90 mins from the other side of Manchester. Maybe we should arrange it and fly our P2000's together along wih Tims PSS Hawk. Could even bring the F16 with me for a laugh!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 David - its a run I know very well indeed - my son is at Bangor university so I drive the A55 many times a year! BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 05/06/2013 00:04:37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I'm enjoying following this thread - it's a bit like an irresistible force meeting an immovable object, in a light-hearted, joshing sort of way.....and we're here for the fun, aren't we? I think most of us who have flown pure gliders, thermal or slope, will accept that the mainstream, not-too-expensive leccy gliders of today ARE something of a compromise, with the big advantage of being easy to launch and regain height at will - no need for bungees, winches or towlines to lay out and recover, etc. They can also be flown from sites that wouldn't lend themselves to pure gliding, too, either as a result of obstructions, limited width or perhaps public access. This does make them an attractive buy for many. It also gives flyers a chance of getting an extended amount of air-time with a limited capacity flight pack, too The disadvantage, of course, is that we're often asking a model of similar dimensions to a relatively small (by gliding standards) soarer, to carry the extra weight of a motor and flight pack. This is bound to have an effect on gliding performance as, by and large, we're not getting super-efficient wing sections and high-performance materials for our money. For example, put an Easyglider (glider) alongside an Easyglider (leccy) side-by-side at 500ft and the pure glider should win out every time. With that in mind, I have no great expectations of outstanding performance, so I'm happy to extract what I can within the parameters set by the model. If I can exceed those expectations, then so much the better. Knowing that I'm asking a lot from a model like the P2000, getting into lift and gaining a reasonable amount of height is just as satisfying as scratching around and recovering height with a thermal soaring sailplane. I'm looking forward to the Extra v P2000 fly-off - I know where my money will be...... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will -0 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 04/06/2013 23:24:24: LOL! I've decided to run my own competition. A climb and glide contest. 20 seconds power then how long can you stay in the air? The contestants will be,...in the red corner the P2000, in the blue corner my very battered Parkzone Extra 300. I reckon I'm in with a chance with the Extra personally! BEB Mmm but that's not the whole story is it? -How far can you glide the P2000 vs the Extra from a set height is much more interesting as it's an indication of how likely you are to get to the next thermal before you're too low. -How do the two compare at speed? Very important on the slope! also, your 20 seconds power will give different heights to start with due to the different motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.