2014 Mass Build - Discussion about model choices

[Bearair]

I think the DB Tinker would make a excellent choice, especially the 45" one. Cheep electric conversions have already been done with smallish lipos. It is small enough for glow or diesel. You can build it as rudder elevator or full house and suits complete beginners or with a bigger motor and ailerons becomes a great fun fly for even the most experienced flyer. It can be easily hand launched or operated from rough fields. Its a biplane but rigging is easy and building does not involve complicated checks for incidence. The basic plan lends itself to all sorts of modifications which would be interesting to see in a mass build thread. Even scale lovers could probably make a few adjustments and build a cartoon scale Waco or similar. We would be supporting a british cottage company that has served thousands of modellers well over the years. We might even be able to get them to do a cnc cut front former ( the only one that's difficult in any way if memory serves me correctly). if I built one I would take out the dihedral use a symmetrical section, ailerons on both wings, a good .25 and have a right little Hot Dog on my hands.

Edited By Bearair on 29/09/2013 20:48:30

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Hi Chaps and Chappesses! No, its Ok I don't have a head ache I'm just sitting back and letting the debate flow. Some very good ideas here, I'm a little worried about the 88mm AA gun, but now I have my bombs working that "pop-gun" will pose no threat!!

OK, now an important point;

This thread is great for chatting, but if you have suggested something on here and you want it to go forward to the formal selection process then it must be in the nominations thread. It only needs to appear once in there, but it must at least appear as we will be using that thread as the basis for drawing up the first round voting.

We'll be drawing up the "long list" next week I hope.

BEB

[Steve Adams]

Mark i Would be interested

in the Rat Out Of Hell on pdf. It would have to be ic for me as thats all i have from when i used to fly in the 1990s.I would love to jump on the electric band wagon asap,but funds dont permit as yet. So based on that i have to use what i have which is an Irvine 25TBR nib,MDS 38nib,or a well used Enya 40SS,and MDS 25 All two stroke motors.Which engine would you think is best for me to use in ROOH? as i dont really want a pylon racer,just a good sports flier!

Kind Regards Steve

PS - When would you be looking at the model being built from your plan,and will you send pdf to my email if i send you a pm?

[Erfolg]

Kevin

I had thought the mass build was part of the ethos of RCM&E, Greenacres, and this forum.

I personally would like one of the previously issued plans to be used as a basis of the concept. I assume the Pie Wacker is a RCM&E plan. There have been a number in my club, appearing a simple build and most defiatly an excellent flier.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

One thought - a few people have asked about the selected model being a free plan with the Mag in coming months. I don't speak in any way for the Magazine - but I suspect this really isn't a practical idea. You have to remember that the magazine is planned many months in advance. So the free plans that will be included between now and say Feb/March (which is about as late as we could delay any start) have probably already been lined up and selected. The exact order may be variable - and one or two might come or go - but basically its set. So to get the model selected here as a free plan - assuming the Mag agreed to do so, which is not a foregone conclusion - we'd have to wait a long time.

Now there may be a way to do this - but it would need a change in how we run the scheme.....

It may be possible to get the mag to tell us what models are in the pipeline to be free plans in the coming months and those models could then form the shortlist. We could then vote on which of the forthcoming models will be this year's Mass Build. I think that could work. The disadvantage is that to some extent we would be "voting in the dark" as these would be new models with no track record. But then the plus side is no one can say "I don't want to take part as I've already built one"!

Anyone like that idea? If so speak up now!

BEB

[John F]

I think we could go one better.

If we voted on the free plans in the pipeline with the models already mentioned (and a viable option) in the other thread it would be a good all round gauge, I believe.

[Colin Leighfield]

I don't see anything wrong with that BEB, it all depends on what the models are. Time is of the essence though, to maximise the number that get finished for Greenacres, rather than started but not completed in time, if at all. Also, it does beg the question that if this is something brand new, I think a lot of people could be put off if they only had the plan without any write-up. It wouldn't stop me because I'd trust my judgement to some degree, although that's certainly not infallible and I'm daft enough, but sensible more cautious types might take a rain check!

Edited By Colin Leighfield on 30/09/2013 07:32:57

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Fair point Colin. But I think most builds would be "without a write up" in effect as many of the ones suggested don't have a write up as such. Actually, having Nigel's write-up of the Tucano last year was very much an exception rather than a rule as far as the Mass Build is concerned.

I would hope that some earlier experienced starters would effectively be providing information possibly better than a write up through step by step build blogs. This is something we did really well in the first Mass Build where we actually had nominated experienced builders to focus on different elements - building the fuselage, building the wings, covering, installing electric power, installing IC power and so on. That worked really well, perhaps we could do something similar this time?

You are right about the fact that if we were to do this we'd have to "get our skates on".

Regarding the Tucano and finishes. I agree that a good many kits were bought that do not appear to have been built - yet! And a few were started and haven't been finished - again, yet! (We hope!). But quite a few were finished - certainly more than the 7 or so that made it to Greenacres, I don't think they were the summ total of all the finished Tucs. But you are right - we would like a stronger finishing profile. I think one reason for a lower level of completion than we would have liked was that the Tucano wasn't a very easy build. It wasn't difficult - but perhaps in retrospect it was just a bit too much for a complete "first timer"?

BEB

[Colin Leighfield]

Fair enough BEB. I certainly take your point about "lead builders" acting as "pathfinders" (I like the sound of that, although I'm not suggesting that we choose a Lancaster, start simpler with a Wellington)!

I think there's an assumption with the Tucano that because of the flate plate wing and all sheet construction that it's easy, but it did need some build experience to understand some of the non-straightforward bits, so it was really in the "reasonably-experienced" category. I think that's true also of the flying, in fact in full power mode it can be stretching!

So this remains intriguing, clearly we're at a point where decisions are looming.

[Mark Stringer]

Just an update for those who have asked about trying out the Rat Out of Hell (thanks for all of the intrerest!)

My rough plans have now been taken on board by one of the top guys on the forum and they are being produced properly as we speak - so a "Real" plan will be available soon which will be good enough to publish if that is required.

My build instructions are also being de-bugged during the plan drawing so they will be up to date soon too.

I hope to have someone do a test build using the new plans and instructions as soon as they are both ready to ensure that they are both correct - hopefully this will be in the next couple of weeks - so as far as the "Rat" goes everything required will be ready in plenty of time should it get selected and i am sure that whoever does the test build would do a build blog too so that in addition to the build instructions a blog would also be available.

Hope this clears things up with the Rat and a massive thank you to the member doing the plans for me - not sure if i am clear to say who it is yet but will update if I am OK.

[kc]

The Piwakawaka ( Pie Wacker ) was in RCME January 2006.

In my opinion Piwakawaka is too small to be a really worthwhile plane - too difficult to see for many and not a beginners plane.
We should select a previously published plan though so that everyone can start as soon as they want.
What about the Basic 3D? What about the Swamp Rat? - a very recent plan and very simple to build.

Edited By kc on 30/09/2013 11:35:05

[John F]

KC, your model choice needs to go into the other thread for the poll to be compiled with your choice: **LINK**

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Good point Sarge!

IN line with my suggestion of about a week ago or so - which no one raised objections to! - we'll make today the last day for nominations - closing at say 21:00. Then I will be taking the list of formally nominated models from here and trying to put together a staged voting process in an attempt to get the list down to manageable proportions!! With any luck that will be up later tonight.

BEB

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

I've been warming to the idea of the DB Tinker.

At the same time It's fairly obvious that some variations on a theme might be very popular.

As it seems that the Tinker is a biplane version of the classic, that is the DB Tyro, then why not add that as a variation? There are at least three sizes of Tyro available as plans. Tyro, Mini Tyro and Tyro Major.
I'm not sure about different sizes of Tinker bipe?

IIRC the Tyro is a sheet sided fus with a built up flat bottomed wing, with a standard D box leading edge and no ailerons as standard. Is the Tinker the same, but with an extra wing?

For those that would want kits, DB Sport and Scale sell various options for the Tinker.
there's a wood pack available from Myhobbystore for the Mini Tyro.

The Tyro would suit the absolute beginner builder and was originally billed as a trainer too.

I'd better pop over to the nominations thread!

[Mark Stringer]

Posted by Steve Adams on 29/09/2013 21:38:04:

Mark i Would be interested

in the Rat Out Of Hell on pdf. It would have to be ic for me as thats all i have from when i used to fly in the 1990s.I would love to jump on the electric band wagon asap,but funds dont permit as yet. So based on that i have to use what i have which is an Irvine 25TBR nib,MDS 38nib,or a well used Enya 40SS,and MDS 25 All two stroke motors.Which engine would you think is best for me to use in ROOH? as i dont really want a pylon racer,just a good sports flier!

Kind Regards Steve

PS - When would you be looking at the model being built from your plan,and will you send pdf to my email if i send you a pm?

Steve

forgot to mention in the PM that for the original if you plan to use it as a sports flyer that a 40 is a nice size

The one on my web site used a .46 and was a trainer for a 10 year old so that seems to fit the bill as it allows you to wind it up if you want to or just throttle back and take it easy at other times.

His face says it all really: **LINK**

I also hope that the new plans will now allow it to be easily scaled to any size, so a Mini Rat for electirc or even a Mega Rat!

I have had the OK from the new plan drawer to mention his name - it is the one and only Richard Harris - a massive thanks to him for his work on these!!

[John F]

Mark,

Even replying to a PM via the forum will only give the Rat out of Hell one option in the poll!

[John F]

I have absolutely no idea why it posted twice. Sorry folks.

Edited By Sarge on 30/09/2013 12:45:01

Edited By Sarge on 30/09/2013 12:48:13

[Mark Stringer]

Sorry Sarge - it was a question in the forum so warranted an answer anyway - I did answer the PM with different deails not added here but felt the information would be useful to others considering the choices.

But yes - point taken - though I do not expect to get on the short list to be honest - I know and believe in its strengths but its dashing good looks seem to be working against it, plus there is the Boddo tribute in full swing - can't believe they are selling up - hope someone worthy takes them over and not one of the big guys that would change what they stand for - anyone got £210,000 spare?

[John F]

ha ha, only kidding. It's nice to see updates and action being taken to remedy or feed demand. I know what you mean, I'm too good looking for the camera that's why I never get picked for the lead roles.

I am sure someone will take on DB models who are worthy. They said that they would work with the new owners to fully train them in modelling, moulding etc until they are fully competant. Eddy and Judy will ensure that it goes to someone who will be striving to make it work.

[Danny Fenton]

Completely off topic but yes I hope DB continues too. Where did you get that figure?

Cheers

Danny

[John F]

It's all here Danny

**LINK**

[Erfolg]

The point that KC raises of size is fundamental to deciding the minimum viable size for the concept.

From memory, I think the Pi Wacker is about 36" span.

For many electric only fliers, this would not be an uncommon size. Almost being the de facto size for many 480 powered models. Out of necessity as KC hints, these models could not be allowed to get to far away. Requiring that the model would seldom get beyond say 50-100 metres from the operator.

So I can see that for those with an IC background, or even a general slope background this would be pushing the boundary, Although many slope fliers do allow the model to pass closer than an IC flier see as prudent. Slopers even catching the model, from time to time, dependant on size and circumstance.

On the other hand larger models are often require much more building. A 50" span, would be a big build for me.

Maybe some idea on what those interested in building a model would help.

Edited By Erfolg on 30/09/2013 13:52:15

[Erfolg]

I have now added three nominations.

Non appealing to my rosy memories of my youth, nor the heavy weight, but oh! so rugged models of the 70s-80s.

They are current models, all apparently free RCM&E plans, all simple designs.

• Pie Whacker
• Swamp rat
• Dragon Dancer

All having a parallel chord wing.

Edited By Erfolg on 30/09/2013 15:17:52

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Hi All - new chat thread opened specifically for the first round voting phase here.

BEB