Which trainer?

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I hate instructing without a buddy lead - so much so that I very reluctant to do it. It never seems to work out right! If the model gets into trouble either;

1. The student pilot develops a grip on the Tx such that there is no getting it back! Or,

2. He thrusts it into my hands with the model inverted, nose down, doing 80mph, 10 feet off the deck and says "Help!"

Its all so much less stressful with a trainer switch. In practice without a buddy lead I tend to err on the side of caution and take control earlier. Whereas with a lead, because I feel more relaxed and confident, I'll usually leave the student in control much later. So its better all round.

BEB

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

for a older pupil i'd choose a flat bottomed wing

for a younger pupil i'd choose a semi symmetrical wing

buddy box is best thing that instructors ever had. its give you chance to allow pupil to recover themselves, thus learning from mistakes. using rates on pupils box makes sense to me, just up them when pupil improves. we are nearer the floor than a pilot in a full size. the landing issue I see a lot, for me its down to the model flying much slower when landing, making it harder to fly, needing small corrections. teach them to fly slow before starting landings with them. I don't feel a tutor 40 or a boomerang trainer would hold a pupil back, up the rates it'll do B certificate no bother. I see time after time people get passed out to fly solo, rush out and buy a so +so model and its crash after crash. my advice is always the same, stick with your trainer a bit. when you can outfly it, you'll be a good flyer.

[Derek Stevenson]

John - sound advise. I also watched pilots pass the A test and then buy a fancy plane. It usually needs to fly & land much quicker. The sudden change can take some by surprise (of course now they are flyers) and lead to a crash which I often watched. The other problem is slowing it down to be "comfortable" then doing the down wind turn with a breeze on it tail, and watching it spin into the ground. I've just had my second pupil pass his A test a couple of months ago, he is still flying his flat winged trainer but now loops & stall turns with confidience and he is gaining confidience doing rolls. Once he can confidiently roll the flat bottomed winged trainer I think he will have no trouble with the mid winged follow on. He is totally happy doing this and gaining lots of confidience.

When you can outfly your trainer, you'll be a good flyer - well said John. (and I haven't got to use the buddy box yet although I do agree it is a better way to go)

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Derek

can't beat buddybox cuts down grey hairs and heart problems

[Derek Stevenson]

John

There is no answer to that!

[scott finnie]

Posted by mervyn robb on 07/01/2014 16:11:16:

Hi Scott. As I said sooner I would have liked the Apprentice but horizon said it would be at least December 2013 before it would arrive form China, that is the s15e model. Is it now available? A bit late for me now I suppose.

Merv

Hi Mervyn

I now have 2 of them one in standard form and one for spares, the second one been a mistake i made when ordering online! I thought the order hadn't went through so phoned and ordered and then boom 2 xmas presents! I cant recommend the apprentice enough it really has been an eye opener for me with the new safe system which really does work! It will never perform aerobatics like the Riot but it will roll, loop and fly upside down all day if you wanted, it takes off within 15 feet though i prefer scale like take-off's and landings are very predictable , flight times on average using a 3s 3200 (30c) is 14 minutes of expert smooth and gentle flying or 9 minutes safe mode flying, i always set my alarm on my timer to 8 minutes , its always nice to have some back up charge left in the battery just incase the landing or conditions dont fit in, i have fitted my Contour Roam 2 camera to the top of the wing and sometimes to the bottom of the battery mount and no trim is needed for the extra weight at all. One thing to watch though is the battery compartments on a few havent been glued in enough and as a result can fall off taken the battery with it! i've used some epoxy to fix this issue, i had this happen to my very first apprentice years ago too though it managed (without battery!) to pull up and land itself . Also the weels could do with been a 1/2 inch bigger than they are. The stock prop is fine, i plan on upgrading this at a later stage to a 11x8 apc but for now stock is adequate . I had 6 flights by the sea yesterday landing on the beach and it was just as fun as my little Eflite Pa20! As others have said the RIOT is a great aircraft aswell but it comes down to the persons interests flying it, do you want to progress to scale like flying with a loop or a roll thrown in every so often or all out aerobatics, if its the latter then maybe the RIOT would be the better choice, it is a good aircraft , built well and good fun Hope this weather calms down soon, i'll try make a little onboard video of the apprentice flying at the weekend till then happy hunting and all the best

Scott

[nasher 546]

Posted by nasher 546 on 07/01/2014 15:21:45:

Guys,

Firstly, a belated Happy New Year to you all.

Secondly, many thanks for the advice, you are all fonts of knowledge. I really do appreciate what you have all advised. As a novice I thought I would be inundated with information I did not understand. That has not been the case and because the club I am going to join has excellent instructors and 'buddy boxes' I have decided to opt for the RIOT. I will of course let you know how I get on and progress. As Mervyn quite rightly points out, so frustrating for all at the moment with the weather we are having. Once again thanks Guys, I very much look forward to being part of your forum.

 

Hello again All,

I have now taken delivery of my RIOT. It is assembled and the receiver has been bound to the transmitter.

Everything looks/seems OK, (to my untrained eyes and ears), however, when the rudder is operated there is a flutter/buzzing noise which continues after I have released the stick. Is that an issue you guys can advise on or am I just better to leave it until someone trims it for me later on?

Edited By nasher 546 on 07/01/2014 15:22:47

 

Edited By nasher 546 on 10/01/2014 12:40:05

[Lee Smalley]

I have been flying for over 20 years and instructing both on buddy and without for about 10, the one thing i have learned is that different trainers suit different pupils, a wot 4 on low rates may be fine for one person and yet another may find it terrifying and never progress on it, so i do get very dismayed by people coming on forums and spouting this model or another, it really is down to the individual, generically a standard 4 ch trainer like the tutor or boomerang are a safe bet, yes he might get bored with it quite quickly, but he will never the less be able to learn on it, so my advice to all would be to be cautious and seek advice from the person who is teaching, especially so if he is a regular flier who almost never crashes and you will save money in the long run

[nasher 546]

Hello again All,

I have now taken delivery of my RIOT. It is assembled and the receiver has been bound to the transmitter.

Everything looks/seems OK, (to my untrained eyes and ears), however, when the rudder is operated there is a flutter/buzzing noise which continues after I have released the stick. Is that an issue you guys can advise on or am I just better to leave it until someone trims it for me later on?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

touch top of servo's pushrods its usually a bit of pressure from linkage

[nasher 546]

Posted by john stones 1 on 10/01/2014 17:43:45:

touch top of servo's pushrods its usually a bit of pressure from linkage

Apologies John,

Can you please elaborate further.

 

 

Edited By nasher 546 on 10/01/2014 17:54:59

[Rob43]

Hi nasher
I would just check first that your linkages, pushrods and control surfaces all move freely without the servo conected to the control rods. This is most likely the cause. If there is any binding or undue stiffness the servo will still be under load when the control surfaces are resting and therefore you will hear the servo acting against this to maintain its position. If that is not it then maybe a faulty servo but that is what I would check first.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

soz nasher

also check pushrods line up nicely with servo's

if they are a bit out give em a tweak

[nasher 546]

Rob & John,

Thanks for the advice Guys. I will give it a go.

[nasher 546]

Rob, John,

It is just when I give it right rudder and when I centralize it that;s when I get the flutter. It does not do it when I give it left rudder and back to center.

[Rob43]

When you check the linkage etc try the servo without the pushrod connected as well, operate it left and right with no load on it and if you still get the problem without the pushrod connected then this could be showing up a faulty servo.
Let us know what you find.

[nasher 546]

Many thanks Rob,

I will have a look today and feedback. Really appreciate your help.

[nasher 546]

Hello Rob,

Apologies it has taken me so long to let you know how I got on.

Took the rod, linkage etc apart and put it all back together. It is working fine now. Many thanks for your assistance.

[Rob43]

No worries nasher
Glad you got it sorted without resorting to new bits!

[Oops]

I seem to have bought a 4th aircraft today. Not a bad rate of acquisition seeing as I've only been interested in the hobby since Christmas day. Having not yet bought my first Rx for my Wildthing, it's now occured to me I have to buy a 2nd one for the trainer EPP model (Slow Wasp) I've bought.

I asked someone recently how many models he had, and he said he had 30. When people have n models at home, do you have n receivers, n*3 (say) servos, n lipos etc?

Marc

[Rob43]

Oops

As long as you have enough channels on your rx there is nothing to stop you swapping your rx from one model to another. . .but. . . . It becomes a bit of an inconvenience pulling out the servo wires if you were hopping from one model to another, plus you will find certain recievers will suit certain models ie a small plane will accommodate a 4ch rx better than maybe trying to squeeze in a 9ch rx you might want to use in a future model, and now some rxs can be bought quite cheaply so much so that some pilots as part of thier purchase criteria will choose a radio tx that is compatible with rxs that are available at a low price.

[Oops]

Yes I can see it being a pain swapping Rxes even if the same type across models. I need I think to an awful lot of reading around the electronics side of things, I have no idea of how to choose servos and Rxes, or even what the complete 'drive train' looks like. Even lipos/life/chargers/psus seems very compliacted (not to mention potentially dangerous, I have my 2 small lipos in le creuset saucepans now!).

[iqon]

Dont cook em for too long will you.

[mervyn robb]

Hi guys

At long last after a long period of turbulent weather we had lovely spring day today and I had my first flight with my mentor. Needless to say I launched it but I was soon handed the transmitter to take over control. All went well but then I was a few hundred feet up! Once I started to lose height the controller was quickly grabbed to save the day. There was a 10-15 knot wind which didn't help

Didn't switch on any of the learning aids on the Sportsman and didn't use the buddy box and seemed to do reasonably well. Looking forward to my next flight.

MERV

[John C]

Posted by mervyn robb on 11/03/2014 18:55:07:

Hi guys

At long last after a long period of turbulent weather we had lovely spring day today and I had my first flight with my mentor. Needless to say I launched it but I was soon handed the transmitter to take over control. All went well but then I was a few hundred feet up! Once I started to lose height the controller was quickly grabbed to save the day. There was a 10-15 knot wind which didn't help

Didn't switch on any of the learning aids on the Sportsman and didn't use the buddy box and seemed to do reasonably well. Looking forward to my next flight.

MERV

Well done Merv. It was such a beautiful sunny day too. I hope this is just the first of many enjoyable flights for you. One to savour and remember.

I hope your instructor will use the buddy box with you because it will help you to relax flying and also speed up the learning process and avoid the distress of disheartening crashes early on in you flying experience.