Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 As a club we are starting to see the odd enquiry from people who want to join and fly quadcopters. No problem with that as such. The problem is our club, in common with many others, has a rule that in order to fly solo you must hold an A-certificate. Now, let's not get into another discussion on the merits of that! Suffice to say we have little or no choice but to have this rule as we fly in a public place and its a condition of us leasing our flying strip from the council - so its a given, we have to do it. But,...there is no A-cert test for quads? Those quads that are flown are flown by people who already have either a fixed wing and/or helicopter A cert. But how does someone who doesn't have one of these - and has no wish to get one - get to fly their quad solo. Initially I wondered if it would be possible to them to fly the helicopter A test - but a quick look at the rules for that would suggest not, or at least its doubtful. Also I personally wouldn't be too happy with that. The reason is if they pass with a quad then they get a "helicopter A cert", that clears them to fly any helicopter not just quads. Now as someone who recently has clocked quite a few hours up on quads (including quite large ones) I know that quads are a lot easier to fly than a helicopter! Witness the fact that I can fly a quad perfectly well - but I can't fly a helicopter! I was wondering if any clubs in a similar position to ours have encountered this problem before? Or if anyone can suggest a solution? BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 never occurred to me that one BEB all our quad flyers have F/W A's no possibility of club committee devising an A for quads or must it be BMFA one? other than that its time for a BMFA quad test or clubs like your's are snookered agree totally with your heli thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 9 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 how does a fixed wing A qualify you to fly a quad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Well it doesn't as such does it! So there is a problem that way round as well! But the fact is we have had people who have flown quads at the strip - on the basis that they do at least hold some sort of A-cert. But look where it would lead - if we were to enforce the rule to the absolute letter, then we would have to say "you can't fly quads at all at our club" - no one can - because no one can have an A-cert for them as it doesn't exist! Now given that of fixed-wing, helicopter and quads my experience is that the last are by far the easiest to fly that would seem to me to be a bit of a daft situation? I suppose what we are saying is on the relatively few occasions people have flown quads at our club they have always been flown by pilots with significant previous experience and at least an A-cert in another discipline. But our problem now is what of the complete beginner that wants to fly quads? BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 01/03/2014 23:43:10 Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 01/03/2014 23:44:29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Aero modelling it may not be but model flying it certainly is, so I'd expect the BMFA to either have, or be formulating policy in respect of multicopters and circulating it to at least Area level. Multicopters have been with us for while now so, as a dynamic, forward-thinking and 'finger on the pulse' type of organisation, there really ought not to be an ominous silence from Chacksfield House..... I'd be enquiring of my Area rep as to the current advice to clubs and, if advice isn't forthcoming, ask why not..... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 if questions for me Phil where did I say it did? our club requires NO A cert to fly solo no one has asked me to take them for an A with a quad, so like I said its never occurred to me any new lads flying quads are instructed by lads already proficient in them (instructors) the ONLY thing our club requires WHATEVER you fly is you do so safely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 I think Phil's question was for me John - and its a fair point that just exposes the problem even more. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 you are correct BEB never occurred to me until you posted it, we are lucky no conditions to meet on our lease. it puts your club at a disadvantage re new members. being as its something I may be asked to do some day I will send e-mail tomorrow about it, doubt i'll be the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 9 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 it was to highlight you need an A appropriate to the model you are flying. It was the case at one club where people moved onto helicopters after a getting a fixed wing A but did not take the heli A but still flew them unsupervised. It was overlooked because enforcing the rule became inconvenient (no heli instructors). In case of quads there is no appropriate Cert. So a beginner whose only model is a quad has a problem to prove his worth but others at the same club with an inappropriate qualification are allowed to fly. Can your club ask this question direct to the BMFA. It would be very interesting to hear their answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Jones Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Might I suggest, if only as a temporary measure until an "A" arrives, that clubs device there own less formal but all the same standardised pre solo check for pilots wanting to fly multi-copters. Some clubs do this already rather than using the "A" cert as the clear to go solo for fix wing and helicopters, so why not the same for multis? Doesn't help BEB out with his situation but might be useful for others. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Hmm...not a problem for most clubs who can decide on how and when members can fly but in a case like BEB's where the landowner has imposed conditions requiring an A certificate then it's not so easy. Could you approach the council and suggest that (as your club in all likelihood does its own A testing) your BMFA qualified examiners could conduct a test to an equivalent standard and issue an "internal" certification for flying quads only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I wondered the same Ian, Martin my e-mails gone Edited By john stones 1 on 02/03/2014 00:41:39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 had a very prompt reply from Duncan McClure re A test for multi copters he is achievement scheme coordinator both A + B are on agenda, at the meeting a week on Saturday hopefully the A at least shall be approved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 That's interesting John. At the moment, if no A is forthcoming, its looking like we will have to refer such folks to a local heli-based club we know that does not have the requirement for an A-cert. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Its a shame that the council cannot be persuaded to have a more pragmatic approach and waive the test requirement for models with mass of under <say> 0.5kg or whatever. This would allow the small park flyers etc to be flown and would probably include most mini quadcopters as well.. It could be stipulated that a supervision and insurance requirement would still have to be in place. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 hopefully it will soon be available to club examiners BEB his reply was encouraging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Is this manouevre going to be part of the new multicopter A test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I keep having a look, not seen anything so far if it is Martin they better provide their own patient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Posted by Martin Harris on 28/03/2014 12:36:53: Is this manouevre going to be part of the new multicopter A test? What manoeuvre, Martin? I'm using my phone at the moment and can't see anything on your post. I guess is an old style YouTube link using flash, as flash is no longersupported on my phone after loading Kit Kat. Can you repost using the non flash link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Try this, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Thanks Martin - back home now so I can see the original anyway. I think "we" decided a while ago that the iframe method would be better for embedded youtube videos - mainly (at that time) for Apple ithings, looks like if Android are also going down the road of ditching Flash that the iframe method would be best for everything... See if this (above) works on Android. (EDIT: And indeed it does!) Edited By John Privett on 28/03/2014 20:37:25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 The youtube video was mentioned as a news story in the Metro (free paper) today. Edited By John Privett on 16/04/2014 19:05:30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braddock, VC Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Is this a chicken and egg job? If there's no proficiency test at present, when one is devised will there be a competent examiner available to take the candidate through a test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Gorham_ Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I think that the BMFAs stance may well be similar to the existing position with tests and examiners. As a fixed wing examiner, you are able to take a candidate for a heli A test (although it is preferred to use a heli examiner). Also, as I understand it, when the Achievement scheme was first created, then so were the first batch of examiners. Although I have been told that as secondhand information, so don't quote me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 On hold again till August John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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