Transmitter Purchase and Wind Flying

[Ernie]

Hi Chris, Regarding wind speed. Here is the Beaufort wind scale; **LINK** It gives visual signs for various wind speeds. Though ancient, It still applies today.

If you are a lone and inexperienced flyer, I'd stay firmly on the ground if the speed exceeds force 4

ernie

[cymaz]

Sound advice Ernie, I would go as far as saying down to Force 3 even. I have a rule for my biplanes- ( in mph this is ) if its singles figures ( 1-9) safe to fly. Over 10 mph not flying a biplane.

This rule is for our flying site...lots of trees and turbulence etc.

Edited By cymaz on 24/03/2014 12:15:07

[Lee Smalley]

as with everything different things suit different people, i personally can't be bothered with the amount of work required to get the most out of an OS tx like the taranis, so i would much prefer to spend the additional 40 quid (tiny amount really) on a tx that more suits my needs and allows me to do what i want to do in the minimum amount of time, my 11x zero is really good for simple to moderately complicated models, but the instructions fall down when it come to full house composite gliders, its not that it can't do it, it can..... its just rather poo at letting you know how to do it, the aurora, from my 30 mins playing with it was considerably more intuitive, its a shame it was only 9 channels, but at the end of the day it depends on what you want to do, just ensure you know your tx inside and out (whatever make it is) before you ask an instructor to set your model up!!

[Chris Anthony]

I don't think I am, cymaz. There are some things I have to know, if 'programming ability' etc are features that are going to dictate what TX I get, then I need to know what that means before I buy one. Agreed, I don't need to become an expert in programming before, I just need a basic understanding of what it is, but at the moment I don't even have that, hence the questions.

Another question, will TX choice affect the RX/servo options available to me?

[Lee Smalley]

rx yes servos not really !!

[cymaz]

Then I suggest you get to the club you have chosen to join, see what Tx the majority of fliers and instructors are using. Get some flights under your belt with their club trainer. Get a feel of the Tx that is used. Ask a few questions about programming and you will have a better idea about what will suit you.

Get some practical help and see the different Tx's that are down your club in the field. See which one suits you best. I don't know how else to put it!

The same goes for all the other RC equipment, servos etc. There is possibly hundreds of years of knowledge and experience at a club. And all for free- use it.

Edited By cymaz on 24/03/2014 12:47:49

[Mr.B.]

Hi Chris,

There is a glossary on the RCME site that may help **LINK**

With conventional computer radios programming is no more than going through a whole load of menu option screens to set up the funtions you want. To give you an idea of what prgramming a TX means you can down load the spektrum manuals. This is the DX8 manual. **LINK**

Open source (OS) radios radios allow the user total freedom in configuring functions but therefore take longer to do and is best done via a lap top. None of this is programming as in coding.

[avtur]

Try searching You Tube using transmitter names, there's a wide variety of videos there which take you step by step through programming. Some are produced by individuals and some by dedicated review channels, between them you can get a good idea what is involved. To set you off in the right direction try these You Tube channels "2BrothersHobby" and "RCModelReviews"

I must admit that when I saw video of how to program the Hi-Tec Aurora 9 that really took my eye, certainly more intuitive than anything else I have seen.

Also if you search the websites of both manufacturers and retail outlets you'll find that a good number of instruction manuals are available to download. A few minutes searching should provide you with a good library of material to study.

 

Edited By avtur on 24/03/2014 13:13:57

[Lee Smalley]

and do not be swayed by the "everyone uses spektrum" attitude either, for my money it is just really good marketing and there are better systems out there than DSM2 and DSMx, i use JR myself (DSM2) but i will be moving over to DMSS (all JR) personally for ease of use reliability and bang for Buck, you really will be hard pushed to beat the Aurora....... and it looks pretty too!!!

go to a model shop and have a grope and a feel of all of the tx's they have!!

i bought my 11xzero purely because it looks like it will eat your children!!!! i am a sad vain so and so

[Lee Smalley]

oooooo shiney!!!

[cymaz]

Isn't it the main character from Transformers?

[Mr.B.]

I thought Transformer was a Lou Reed record?

I'm not trying to push Speky on the pour lad (not to suggest that Lee was suggesting I was) it's just what I use at the moment . I have had no problems with it but if I was re equipping today I'd probably chose differently as much much shinier gear is now available.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

A good album Mr B, Transformer

R.I.P Lou Reed

[cymaz]

Lou who ??

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Transmitters and programing eh Chris, well let's try this.

First of all what follows immediate below refers only to what we might call "mainstream" transmitters - by which I mean the ones produced by the likes of Futaba, Specktrum, JR, Hitec.

1. No its not programming as in writing code. Its selecting items off menus and setting values of paramemters.

2. Is it difficult? Well anything is difficult if you don't know how to do it. However all the flyers I know do master it to at least some degree of competence. They can all set a simply model up. In my experience those who can't do much more than that are usually in that situation by choice - ie they have never really tried to do more than that. Which is fine as long they are happy and enjoying their hobby.

3. Are some transmitters easier/better to program than others? Well at the risk of starting an avalanche of protest, I'd actually say "no". You'd be hard pressed to fit a ciggie paper between them. They all do the standard stuff in more or less the same way. Sure some might have this "special feature" but others will have that "special feature" but too be honest very few modellers really make much use of said special feature anyway! If you can program one you can usually figure out programming another within a couple minutes. The menus might have slightly different names, they might be in different places - but the changes are really inconsequential if you really know how to program a standard Tx. I believe this is Lee's point when he talks of setting up a first model on a new Tx in 10mins - yeap, I agree for standard Tx and straight forward model that requires no complex mixes, I would say the same.

4. Are you limiting your subsequent choice of receivers and servos? Receivers - yes. You have to buy the same brand and type - or a clone. Servos, no. Unless we are talking very specialist servos (Sbus enabled etc) pretty well all standard servos will work on all systems.

5. Are the manuals clear? Well I think they are generally better today than they used to be - but that's not saying much! TBH I have never found a Tx manual I would class as "good" - the best are adequate. To be fair most cover the basic stuff to get you started quite well these days. But its usually in the coverage of more advanced facilities where you are more "on your own". But as someone has said - there's is usually someone on here who has tried to do what you want to do before and can advise.

So, what I'm saying I suppose is that mainstream Tx makes these days are much of a muchness. They are all "good", they all work well, they all offer basically the same capability. As regards within a brand, well more money gets you more channels (so you can control more functions and more complex models) and usually some extra facilities, such as maybe telemetry etc. Plus often slightly improved mechanical specifications like better, smoother, gimbles on the sticks, adjustable sticks and more steps in the stick movement resolution and so on.

So how do you decide? Well, if you are not going to follow the excellent advice to "get what your instructor has" then I think the only deciding factor is - what does it feel like in your hands? Get down to the LMS and try a few out. Make sure the battery is in place, as this effects the balance. Are the switches in the right places for the size of your hands? Do you like the weight? Is the On/Off switch out of reach of accidental operation? Are the stick lengths and tensions adjustable - if so can you find a combination you feel comfortable with? Etc.

Within a brand - if you are in the hobby for the long haul I'd buy the highest spec you can afford. So if you go for Spektrum I'd get at least a DX8 and if you can afford it a DX9. If aDX7 is what you can afford - fine its a good Tx - but it won't have as many facilities. Will you need those facilities? Well that's up to you and how far you what to go. But you've made it clear you are aiming high.

I think that deals with my views at least on standard Tx's. I'll deal with OS Tx's in another post.

BEB

[cymaz]

Not much more to be said BEB..... It's all been covered now I think

There is always help when it's needed though for chris

Edited By cymaz on 24/03/2014 17:18:24

[Steve Goodwin]

Been following this, and although at times it's a bit of a painfull read, I think, correct me if wrong here chaps that, those on here with oodles of experience have learnt the hard way. The first radio I had, had no programming, only 4 channels and a set of nicads. Now this basic set gave me a real good grounding, first was the 4 channels that was enough of a handfull the next was looking after the batteries, basic knowledge but a proper grounding in both orientation and charging safety. Been flying for a while, off and on over the last few years, I still consider myself a beginner. But those basic skills are " in the locker" Slow down a bit and enjoy the ride.

All the best, Steve

[Chris Anthony]

Yes this is all great stuff, thanks guys. What you may consider simple, obvious and trivial is actually what I really need to know.

BEB in particular, thanks that post has made me feel less intimidated. If you mean you'll talk about open-source transmitters in another post, then I look forward to that post.

Steve, what exactly is painful to read?

Thanks,

Chris

Edited By Chris Anthony on 24/03/2014 17:42:23

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I am a looking forward to a post on Taranis

I've done years of instructing, spent hours re-plumbing, sorting engines etc etc etc

it goes with the job, club needs members so you do it

be grateful for some tuition myself BEB

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

OK Part two - sorry about the break but I have to attend to the day job sometimes!

I have been a Futaba user all my R/C career. As an instructor I also quite often have to sort issues on other people's Tx's - which might be any of the main brands. As John says it goes with the territory. So I consider that I know my way reasonably well round a standard Tx.

Two months ago I bought a Taranis. Initially out of curiosity. Chris Bott had purchased one an was telling us some of the stuff it cold do. And we have a thread running that chats about it, So, as Lee would say, I am one of those people who quite like "tinkering" around so I thought I'd have a go. After all you never know when one might arrive in the hands of beginner - as has happened - and it would be nice to at least have a clue about it.

What do I think of it? Well if I tell you that after just two months I've started putting Futaba Rx's on eBay does that give you a clue? I am very impressed indeed.

So, some thoughts on it:

1. Is it more difficult to program? I would honestly say no. It is not more difficult, but it is certainly very different to program. And therein I believe lies the problem. We have become so used to all Tx's being at least basically the same - this throws us. If you approach this with the view "It just another Tx" it will flummox you. If you set out to "find the D/R and Expo" menu - you won't find it - it isn't there!

2. In what way is it different? Well its different on the most fundamental level it really. It has a different basic "model" to its programming, Its very orientated around the concept of signal flow through the Tx - starting at your fingers and finishing as movement of a servo. You have to build this chain - passing the signal from one stage to the next. Yes there are points along the way to do all the familiar things like dual rates and expo and differential etc, But they are just that - steps along the path, links in the chain.

3. Can you learn it easily. Yes, provided,....you are prepared to approach it with an open mind and without a pre-conceived idea of how it works. That's why it takes about 2 hours to set up the first model - because you are not just learning a new set of menus you are learning new structures, concepts and a whole fresh approach to how a model is programmed. Once you have done one - the second is easier, much easier! Now I reckon I could set up a basic 4 channel model at least as fast as I could before - possibly faster.

4. Are there any ways in which its easier than with a conventional Tx? Yes I believe there are. A lot of the "cleverness" involved in programming a standard Tx is, I believe, tied up in finding "workarounds" - basically working within the pre-defined menu system to get the thing to do something that probably wasn't ever envisaged by the designers. So you end up with multi stage mixes and weird set ups. Lee hinted at this himself when he said "the next time I'm sitting in the pits trying to make it do something I want". Experienced Tx users can achieve remarkable results from the fixed set of instructions at their disposal - its really clever. But here is where I think Open Source Tx's really win - you see there are no fixed menus - you want it to do "X" you just tell to! You don't have to "work out" some ingenious back door route to it.

5. Is it true that it is very flexible? Yes - very. Because you can set almost anything to anything you can do things I suspect almost no ones ever thought of! Now you might say "Ah but are they useful things?" Well consider this one. I have a large Piper Cub, its always suffered from adverse yaw - it turns its nose out in the corners. There will be a combination of aileron differential and aileron-rudder mix that will basically cure this. But it's going to take an awful lot of flights to explore all the possible combinations and find the one that's best! With Taranis, due to a clever programming aid called a Global variables, I can set the aileron differential to one rotary knob and the rudder mix to another. Result - I can alter them both independently in the air. And I could even do that if this was a 4 servo glider wing with flaperons. And it isn't difficult to do. Now maybe I could do that with my Futaba - but I can't think how I could link a mix of 4 channels to one controller and control the whole mix from one knob? If someone can work it out - great. But I bet its a damn sight easier on the Taranis!

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

6. But I just fly simple models - do I have to program even them from the ground up? No. There are set wizards on a graphical interface - a couple of clicks and hey-presto a basic model is in place. Same with heli's, gliders, V-Tails and Deltas. So if you want - to start with - its just like using "Model Type" in a standard Tx.

7. So, is it suitable for beginners. Well Lee and I differ here. He quite reasonably points out that the level of support at the strip for an Open Tx transmitter might be low - even non-existent. Well yes it might - but it won't stay that way. I think we'll find that quite quickly Taranis and the like will start to crop up in clubs. It will be like 2.4 - at first it will be the odd one (some very odd ones!), but it will pick up. I am the first in my club with one - already two others are seriously looking at their bank balance!

Beginners may well learn to use Taranis much faster than us old hands - no pre-conceived ideas about what a Tx should look like!

8. Is it good for all beginners? No I don't believe so. I don't even think its right for all flyers TBH. If you are the type who hasn't opened the manual since you took it out the box and who relies 100% on people showing you how to do it - then its not for you. This is transmitter you have to be willing to engage with.

9. Is it here to stay? Definitely is my view. This is the future of our hobby. But not exactly like this. I believe that quite soon new implementations of Open Tx will start to appear on other transmitters - including mainstream makes! - effectively with a more user friendly front end that mimicks more conventional transmitters. You will have the choice to program it through the user interface or directly into Open Tx. We live in exciting times!

BEB

[avtur]

If anyone wants to see Taranis programming in action take a look at You Tube, there's a guy there by the name of "R. Scott Page" who has posted a number of videos about different aspects of Taranis.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

And very good they are too!

BEB

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

i'll take you up on that Avtur

cheers BEB

[Chris Anthony]

BEB, thanks very much for that write-up, I appreciate it. I wouldn't be surprised if you told me that you work for or have shares in FRSKY after that

At the moment, I'm pretty sure I'll be getting hold of a Taranis on Friday when I get paid. I've managed to get hold of an online copy of the manual, and I'm confident that I'll have time to get my head around the programming before I consider buying my next model.