Michael Black Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Hi all I am new to this hobby and will be taking my a cert shortly, I have a low wing airplane that I bought secondhand to use when I have my Cert (using a trainer at the moment ) I have a bit of cash spare would like to buy a biplane, I am a bit of a petrol head so would like a petrol model. I have been looking at the ultimate one by seagull which is a 90to 120 size and weighs 4.2 to 4.8kgs. i have also been looking at the world models seagull which uses a 50cc petrol engine which weighs 5.9 to 6.8 kg. i have mentioned the weight because I will be limited to 7kg. the world models one is twice the price is it twice the plane? can I put a petrol engine in the seagull model ? anything else I have missed or general advice? Mick ps I won't flying this model until I have enough experience and then it will be with the experience guys at the club, just would like to own a really nice model. Edited By Michael Black on 21/08/2014 11:00:32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Well - I'm certainly glad you added that last bit Mick! That's a hell of a step up! First bear in mind that the Ultimate, great aeroplane that it is, will have no natural stability at all! Its designed that way, it will go exactly where you point it and has to be flown 100% of the time. Its like balancing a pole on the end of your finger - you get no "time off", it has to be corrected and steered all of the time! Also, if its like most aerobatic bipes, it will glide like a brick! Very draggy. If you do end up dead stick you need to keep the nose well down and the speed well up. Then at the last second flair to land - its "make or bust" with these, there is no such thing as an OK dead-stick landing - its either perfect or its in pieces. World Models vs Seagull? Well World Models kits are, in my experience, very good. Well made, solid, good quality materials and they fly well. Seagull I have less experience of, but what I do have is very positive. But,...I have heard that they can be a bit "hit and miss" - ie most models are very good but they do have the odd rogue. So I would seek out information about their Ultimate specifically rather than go by general reputation. Seagull do tend to be cheaper than many manufacturers - I think they are made in Vietnam where labour costs are still very low. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john melia 1 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I second what beb says, I had the 40 size one fitted with a 52 ts , it required 100% attention at all times , and yes it did have the glide angle of a brick , deadsticks are a dodgy affair , both times it happened to me while travelling downwind , and both times it went in . Having said that it was a lot of fun , and kept me on my toes , notice i say was , as the second time it deadsticked I couldnt get it turned in time , the hard landing caused more damage than I could be bothered to repair . Not saying it will happen to you , but it was a handful at times . This model was a hk variation , so not the best airframe either . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie sawyer Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Posted by Michael Black on 21/08/2014 10:59:01: Hi all I am new to this hobby and will be taking my a cert shortly, I have a low wing airplane that I bought secondhand to use when I have my Cert (using a trainer at the moment ) anything else I have missed or general advice? Mick ps I won't flying this model until I have enough experience and then it will be with the experience guys at the club, just would like to own a really nice model. Why not I say. If I were you just be prepared to look at it for a good amount of time because its a very big leap Mick. As BEB said its full on stick all the time. Your on the trainer just now and put the time in on the sticks as much as possible. Progress onto your low winger that you have and more stick time. Don't jump at the Biplane to quick or you will regret it big time. As you said you would get some of the guys at the field to test fly the Ultimate Biplan, if that happens get a shot of the transmitter and you will soon see what we mean lol. You may be like a duck to water and wonder what we were on about lol. Some people pick it up really fast and some just really struggle and freeze with panic... Good luck and if you get one you have to post some pictures on here for us to all admire Edited By Michael Black on 21/08/2014 11:00:32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie sawyer Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Or you could get one of these lol **LINK** Black horse from my experience are built superbly. This would take a 15 to 20 cc petrol engine......I'm planning one at some point just cant afford it right now ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY DAVIES 1 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 It's the 'I wanna Fly a Spitfire and a Lancaster' thing again. Good advice chaps. It is great to have the fever but it must be controlled or we lose a modeller through despair of the hobby. Good luck Michael and Jamie. Enjoy the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Black Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Thanks for the advice guys, I can see how it's easy to get carried away there are so many brilliant models out there. I was thinking of a nice model because I have a bit of cash from selling some bits and bobs on eBay, suppose I could waste it on food and bills jamie I had look at the Pitts but prefer the look of the Ultimate. sounds like there isn't much difference between the models will the seagull take a petrol engine. I am told petrol engines are less prone to cut outs so less dead stick probs or is this rubbish. mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 It's rubbish Mick a glow motor will serve you well if you set it up correctly and look after it, just as a petrol will. Petrol has become more popular as there are more about now and they are smaller and lighter and the fuels cheaper. both good powerplants. Seagull models are good usually, owned quite a few and flown loads. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Harris 1 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 hi Michael, well done first of all for recognising your current limitations and not rushing into things. My 2 pence worth of advice would be the following... Bank the money somewhere where you cant get at it easily and wait.. Wait and see where the hobby takes you. Wait to see how your skill set develops Wait to see where your interests navigate to - 3D flying, electric, turbines, scale etc.. Then buy what you fancy - Trying to predict what you will like and be able to cope with easily is impossible at your current stage in the hobby. I started like you with a trainer, then a low winger, then I bought aerobatic stuff and learned how to fly that to what I thought were acceptable standards - Then I bought 3d stuff and found it dull cos I couldn't fly it...I worked hard to fund a big 33% Patty Wagstaff Extra with a 100cc motor and swanky servos - It died on its 3rd flight when the engine cut and I tried to stretch the glide too much - It was the fastest snap roll ever - low level into tarmac...Bye -bye in excess of £1000.. Then I found scale stuff and got into large stuff with the Dawn Patrol and its now my passion. I still fly aero's and small fun stuff. If you had told me that THAT is where I would end up, prior to me taking my a test, I would have told you that you were mad! Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinBrian Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I had a Black Horse Ultimate, almost the same as the Seagull one and while certainly not a plane for a novice it was not a difficult model to fly. I flew it for a few years with an OS 120 four stroke and then installed an MVVS 26cc petrol which gave a similar performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I have the Seagull one - flies nice and is quite cheap for its size - but deffo not a beginner model. Even I have to be careful flying it, but it does do that well, being precise - only if the pilot does so. Very unstable, and needs flying, not that it is nasty - just that sort of aeroplane where pilot input is required. Mine has a 120 four stroke and is ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 this site is like treacle - SLOW! Edited By Paul Marsh on 21/08/2014 17:11:01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Has someone in your club got an ultimate biplane? If they are flying it perhaps you could ask nicely if you could have a go.....at 4 mistakes high. You might find it a real handful. This is not necessarily a bad thing. It might give you time to gain more experience. And save up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Black Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 I haven't seen anyone at the club with a biplane I think a few have them but find transporting a bit of a pain. Just having a bit of a rethink what about one of these easy to fly and my louts for large petrol http://www.stevewebb.co.uk/index.php?pid=ABH0633&area=Aircraft mick Edited By Michael Black on 21/08/2014 21:58:33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Aardvark Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The Hangar 9 Christen Eagle is a great biplane with the Saito 125 or (I presume) a similar 120. It's light and fast but easy to fly and looks great too. The only problem is, nobody has any for sale, expected in a month or two. Seagull do one about the same size and weight - it may be worth considering. Hangar 9 make it easy to transport with frames for pairs of wings; insert spars, do up 3 bolts, connect wing servos and your off. Dave Edited By Alistair Aardvark on 21/08/2014 22:11:55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I had the smaller BH Chipmunk. Great flier, nicely built, no vices just a shame I sold it. Good call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Black Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Okay keeping on the same theme how about this http://www.stevewebb.co.uk/index.php?pid=WOTSWOTDL&area=Aircraft says docile enough for the less experienced mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 All the models your looking at Mick are not that difficult to fly, you just need to build your skills up some more. Bipe's need flying onto the floor because they have more drag, deadstick they don't glide in like a trainer. " Docile enough for the less experienced" is misleading that depends on how it's set up...engine, throws, c.g. etc. It's usually the take of or landing that catch's people out. If you are happy to put it to one side buy what you fancy, just don't rush into flying it yet. I get where you're coming from Mick we have all been there..but take your time you'll get there quicker John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Craig Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Posted by Michael Black on 22/08/2014 12:53:16: Okay keeping on the same theme how about this http://www.stevewebb.co.uk/index.php?pid=WOTSWOTDL&area=Aircraft says docile enough for the less experienced mick Hi Michael, Don't know if you have bought your Ultimate yet but I saw your question about the Wots Wot and thought I'd reply. I am pretty much in the same position you are. I am self taught and have only just joined a club where I need to my cert (down here it is the Bronze Wings cert that I have to do). I started on a Minimag and then got myself a PA Addiction. I wanted to jump straight into a Ultimate AMR but was talked out of it and into the Addiction as a better alternative. The Addiction is a great aircraft and flying on low rates, it is just fine for my lack of skills but really, it shouldn't be a second aircraft IMHO. Due to other issues and the need for an aircraft of at least a 0.40 size for the Bronze Wings Cert., I ended up getting a Wots Wot and have only a couple of flights so far, I love it. stable and docile enough for someone advancing past the basics but still very capable of quite a bit more. Being heavier and bigger than the Minimag or Addiction, I really notice how much better it handles wind. So, well worth looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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