Does The Max Thrust Riot Make A Good Trainer?

[Dai Fledermaus]

The marketing hype for the Riot claims that:-

"The incredible new Max-Thrust Riot is the perfect all-rounder. With reduced control throws it's smooth, stable and remarkably easy to fly for the novice or beginner. Increase those throws and the Riot more than lives up to its name thrilling the most ambitious aerobatic pilot."

I've noticed that one or two forum members have said it makes a good trainer, and I've spoken to one chap who is learning to fly with a Riot, a model recommended by his club trainer.

When it was reviewed in RCM&E in 2012, it was judged to be suitable for an Improver rather than a Novice, Perhaps then it's only suitable in a club environment on a buddy lead

Can anyone else endorse it as a trainer?

[LMA Dave]

Sorry I can't help with the plane in question, but I am of the old fashion style of thinking. For me you can't beat a standard trainer with a 40 glow engine up front. It get you use to flying with an engine and the pitfalls that can happen like a dead stick. It homes your skills better which will stand you in good stead later on as a pilot. I am sure many will disagree but if I was training someone that is what I would recommend. Unless your club is all electric and can't fly IC of course.

[J D 8]

Perhaps a max thrust apprentice would be more suitable if going it alone,but still recomend getting help to set up and start flying. Aircraft only for calm conditions but that should be same for anyone starting out.

[Capt Kremen]

Mmm ... Yes & No ... it depends on so many factors.

I should firstly say I am owner of a 'Riot', and this is only my 'two pennerth' observations!

IF you are an absolute beginner, with NO aeromodelling/flying experience I would say NO

IF you can fly or at least have a reasonable idea about which way to push the sticks when one wing goes down etc. them MAYBE but it's not ideal.

IF you have a competent and experienced pilot at your side to initially fly the plane, trim it out then, at a safe height hand the control over and ALWAYS be ready to take back control if required then, YES.

IF you can fly i.e. take-off, fly circuits (L & R!), land without getting your self flustered, then YES but take it steady until you know the plane and it's handling at your flying site.

The other factors are: Any experience with electric power? Handling LiPo packs? The type of flying site you operate from i.e. rough grass is a challenge for the cheap wheels/axles & undercarriage the plane comes with!

Personally, for an absolute beginner, I'd get something with more dihedral that really needs 'guiding' rather than controlling, at least to start with.

And fly in suitable weather conditions, calm(er) as opposed to very windy AND have an competent, experienced flier with you.

[The real Ron Truth]

I flew one to death and it was very stable in low wind conditions and floats well. i learnt to fly aerobatics with one and was impressed with its performance, even if it was a tad underpowered. Not too good once the wind picked up.

Trainer- sure its not different from a WOT4 foamie and if set up right will be fine. The lack of dihedral isn't a problem as long as its balanced correctly.

No unintended deadstick landings is the biggest plus for me! Sorry dave!

[Colin Carpenter]

Hi. Yes, the Riot is more than suitable as a trainer. I am self taught on mine (200 Flights) and have also got two other beginners up in the air on theirs and solo using a DX9 on wireless buddying. It can fly ok up to about 12mph wind and the u/c stands up well to rough field operation. The supplied electrics are ok but watch aileron hinges in transit and change the wheel axles for a stronger bolt. The red version is much more visible than other colours. Much stronger than Wot 4 foamie.

Hope this helps in your choice. Colin

[Stevo]

Colin has it!

Yep I like mine - strengthen the axles though. for a complete novice ensure you try a sim first? Get someone to take it up and check it out and pass the Tx back and forth. You will crack it in no time.

A good point is that it is a wee bit heavy - great for handling a moderate wind!!

In no time you will progress to a 4S pack and a 10x6 prop. When I first flew mine my rates were around 40%... now I'm on 110%.

However the QA on these models is AWFUL. Rudder and elevator linkages are too tight.. I had to install new ones.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I think the good Captain sums it up very well.

Yes - you can learn on almost anything - but the question is "is it a good trainer"!

As a completely ab initio trainer - no the Riot is not good in my opinion. If the pilot is on his/her own its too roll unstable for anything other than a scrambling around lurch from one excursion to the other. With an instructor - well its not dangerous (to the model, you or anyone else around) but I've been on the instructor end of the buddy lead many times with this sort of model and a complete beginner and you have to make far too many interventions so it takes the learner a long time to "get the feel" of things.

Such a learner is better suited to a classical trainer. A model with dihedral that will almost fly itself in a straight line once the cruise throttle setting is established. This allows the complete beginner much longer, stable in control, periods on the sticks without instructor intervention.

The downside with this is that, for most learners, this period is quite short - maybe only 6-10 flights. After which they could cope with something more like the Riot, but they have invested in the trainer.

Where the Riot is suitable is for someone who had done those initial flights and has a basic idea of how to fly. Then, initially with an instructor on buddy, they can benefit and learn quicker from a model such as this in my opinion.

So, in conclusion, for an absolute beginner I would say no - for a learner who has passed the very first stages of learning to fly then "maybe" under the right circumstances.

Just bear one thing in mind - there is absolutely nothing revolutionary in the design of the Riot - in many ways its just a more modern WOT4 clone - so the ideas its based on have been around a very long time. If this style of aircraft was really such a great training vehicle don't you think all the classical trainers would have passed from the scene by now and everyone would be learning on a "toned down" sports aerobat? That hasn't happened - ask yourself why not. Because most instructors' experience tells them that the classical trainer is still the absolute optimum way to learn - that's why!

BEB

[Ron Lang]

Absolutely makes a good trainer. It is quite twitchy for a complete novice but provided you've spent some time on the simulator it flies very predictably.

[GrahamWh]

A friend at the club I go to who is learning has an E-flight apprentice and uses a stabiliser for that, but is fine without a stabiliser with his Riot.

[Brian Pearson]

After my friend learning on his riot seemed to not be progressing I switched him onto my arising star converted to electric. He then settled down and was back flying his riot after a short while. You can't beat a big traditional trainer at the beginning imo.

[Geoff S]

The Riot set up as recommended in the instructions is very docile. I'm not sure if it's suitable for a complete novice but it should be fine for anyone on a buddy lead or who has had a few flights on a conventional trainer (perhaps one owned by the club?).

They are very sturdy compared to the Wot4 fomies. The only real weaknesses are the axles which sould be replaced with 4mm cap head high tenslie bolts. I found the battery compartment very tight, perhaps because all my 2200 3S LiPos have the extra thickness of velcro to suit other models. I took off the battery cover and retain the battery with velcro pads and a strap - haven't lost a battery yet

Last year I flew mine at a small farn campsite (with permission). I flew from a harvested barley field and took off on a bit dirt track (in about 3 metres) and landed in the stubble by almost stalling in from very low. I had 3 flights each evening over a week and the undercarriage survived totally unscathed.

Mine has had about 200 flights and probably 3 or 4 times that landings (I like touch and goes) on the standard power set up. I've removed the lump of steel in the nose and increased the control throws but before I did that it was effectively a trainer. It's my go to model whatever the conditions.

Geoff

[Bill_B]

Posted by LMA Dave on 03/01/2015 09:34:52:

Sorry I can't help with the plane in question, but I am of the old fashion style of thinking. For me you can't beat a standard trainer with a 40 glow engine up front. It get you use to flying with an engine and the pitfalls that can happen like a dead stick. It homes your skills better which will stand you in good stead later on as a pilot. I am sure many will disagree but if I was training someone that is what I would recommend. Unless your club is all electric and can't fly IC of course.

So what you're effectively saying is that glow engines are unpredictable due to the possibility of a dead stick? All the more reason to learn on electric as a 'dead stick' can be commanded at will when the student is ready to learn that aspect of model flying and hone his/her skills. Personally I see no advantage in learning on 'wet' motors and I'm of a age group that honed their skills using a single button, after doing an obligatory apprenticeship on free flight and C/L

[Shaunie]

I don't have a riot but I have a wot4 foamie. I think they are not suitable as a trainer for an absolute beginner unless they have a natural aptitude. For anyone who has some initial experience then they are great. I know that when I learnt on a rudder elevator plane I made little progress until I moved onto an aileron plane which followed my stick inputs more closely, I previously felt very "disconnected" from the plane and suddenly it did what I asked it to and I made progress. So on a buddy box I think they work well. A friend of mine (admittedly a lapsed PPL) had half a dozen buddy box flights on my Wot4 and is now solo on a foamy Acrowot.

Shaunie.