Drones Again........

[Erfolg]

Do you really disagree with the general thrust.

I recognise that the commercial sections of the both the manufacturing and operations will look after themselves. With little or no regard to us hobbyists. Although we do have areas of common interests with some of the commercial sections. There is much in the petition that I can support. Very little in the current EASA proposals that i support, rather much I am totally opposed.

I interpret what I think some are seeing as a encouragement to break any new laws,differently. It is highlighting the possibility that any unreasonable or ill defined regulations often leads to intentional or inadvertent breaches,

I will repeat, if it so badly done, do better, perhaps get the BMFA on board as tacit supporters.

Where I strongly disagree, is to advocate the do nothing, personally, leave it to the BMFA, as the way forward.

I personally have spoken with my local MP, he is aware that there are three clubs in his constituency. Non have caused any safety issues to the public and particularly aircraft, which range from light to predominantly large civil types.

I now feel that I have tried to do something personally to provide, those who want to listen to us, with the ammunition to say to those who advocate, a Draconian set of regulations that are currently on the table, what you are seeking is both unreasonable and lacks total public support.

On this web site some contributors urge modellers to join the BMFA, or those who are members having reservations with some aspects of its internal workings to get involved. I would go one step further and suggest this is an issue that needs us all to get out there and lobby whoever we can.

[John F]

Posted by Erfolg on 22/10/2016 12:11:03

I will repeat, if it so badly done, do better, perhaps get the BMFA on board as tacit supporters.

Where I strongly disagree, is to advocate the do nothing, personally, leave it to the BMFA, as the way forward.

. . . .

I now feel that I have tried to do something personally to provide, those who want to listen to us, with the ammunition to say to those who advocate, a Draconian set of regulations that are currently on the table, what you are seeking is both unreasonable and lacks total public support.

On this web site some contributors urge modellers to join the BMFA, or those who are members having reservations with some aspects of its internal workings to get involved. I would go one step further and suggest this is an issue that needs us all to get out there and lobby whoever we can.

The problem is that the system of petitions allows only one on any particular issue. The advantage is obvious in that it concentrates public opinion into one petition but if that petition is so poorly conceived that to be associated with it is almost harming our cause then we've lost our chance.

All is not lost, however. As noted previously the BMFA is addressing this directly with those folk at the CAA and DfT. Dave Phipps at the BMFA wrote this:

"In terms of writing to MP’s & MEP’s as Simon Dale was suggesting, this would be largely wasted endeavour at this stage as the majority of them are not involved. Writing to the specific MEP’s on the European Parliament Transport & Tourism Committee (TRAN) to seek their support for the proposed amendments may be more useful, but we already have a good level of support and there is some concern that if they get a large amount of correspondence then it may be ultimately be counterproductive and cloud the issue at a time when we need to present a very clear message."

Which basically means that the Ministers who are involved are more than aware of the situation, our views and needs, and don't need anything else saying on the matter.

He also stated this:

"We are working closely with the DfT and CAA who are supportive (the CAA provided some input into the presentation I gave to EASA).

Ultimately, the Prototype Rules are just that. There are a number of stages which they would have to pass through to come into force and dependent upon how negotiations progress, then we may seek to mobilise all model flyers throughout Europe to make a mass response. However, this is something I would like to keep the ‘powder dry on’ at this stage.

As you can see from the above, we are not only active on this front but we are leading it (through Europe Air Sports) on behalf of model flyers throughout Europe. There is a lot more going on at present in addition to that outlined above, some of which is quite sensitive and as such I cannot report on just yet.

Dave Phipps
Chief Executive
(and Technical Officer to Europe Air Sports)"

So the advice is; don't worry we are doing stuff, in the right direction, at the right time, with the right people.

[Bob Cotsford]

Posted by Erfolg on 22/10/2016 12:11:03:

Do you really disagree with the general thrust.

.............

I will repeat, if it so badly done, do better, perhaps get the BMFA on board as tacit supporters.

Where I strongly disagree, is to advocate the do nothing, personally, leave it to the BMFA, as the way forward.

.........

Erf, don't just speak to your MP, put it in writing and send it to your MEPs too. It can only give strength to the BMFA/CAA/FAIs argument to have a lot of written concerns from individuals.

[Erfolg]

Bob

I am surprised and very disappointed at the negativity in some quarters. I did not receive any inclining that I had made any impressions, other than I was heard and a few questions were made. I do know however that this particular MP now knows something about us as a group, and the activity in his patch.

I am aware that not all politicians are interested, having a few in the family, knowing what they preach and the self interested of themselves and very close family, appears to be hypocritical. Yet not all politicians will be like this, some are open to the aspirations of their constituents and not as dogmatic.

I strongly believe that people should get of their backsides and do. It is a cop out to think that others can do a better job than we individuals can do.

My last company was not beyond giving nudges and winks to employees, to supposably organise spontaneous petitions, not only to protect their jobs and more importantly the national interest, perhaps help the business, via the PR department.

At the end of the day pressure from multiple points does work. Although I do recognise some disagree.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Erfolg on 22/10/2016 20:29:32:

I am surprised and very disappointed at the negativity in some quarters.

My last company was not beyond giving nudges and winks to employees, to supposably organise spontaneous petitions, not only to protect their jobs and more importantly the national interest, perhaps help the business, via the PR department.

At the end of the day pressure from multiple points does work. Although I do recognise some disagree.

From my quarter, I see optimism and a positive response from our representatives in partnership with the DfT and CAA.

The BMFA have certainly not dropped any hints to add independent action. In fact, they have specifically asked us not to dilute the case made so far and wait until there is any clearly defined threat.

Edited By Martin Harris on 22/10/2016 20:57:13

[John F]

Posted by Erfolg on 22/10/2016 20:29:32:

I am surprised and very disappointed at the negativity in some quarters. . . . .

I strongly believe that people should get of their backsides and do. It is a cop out to think that others can do a better job than we individuals can do. . . . .

At the end of the day pressure from multiple points does work. Although I do recognise some disagree.

Pressure from multiple angles does work but not when it is a poorly constructed, knee jerk petition that subscribes to hysteria and inaccuracies that would make Lance Armstrong blush.

We have been specifically asked to lay off campaigning as it muddies the waters. This has been specifically advised by the person who is actually there doing the negotiating and addressing the draft proposals and presenting our views directly to EASA.

This isn't negativity, this is advice from the chap who is directly involved and is sat at the table.

Edited By John F on 23/10/2016 08:06:21

[Erfolg]

I am sure that your view and the delegates opinion is well intended.

From the perspective of one who has (had the privilege to have) sat as a member of committees and working parties, there will be a number, often a large number of people and committees and sub committees. The views and opinions of those sat around the table will be many and varied.

Make no mistake, those actually running the process will also be feeding the general mood music from within and outside the process.

The actual specific detail of the general lobbyists matters very little, what is noted is the relative view and the support that that position represents.

The voice of the single delegate generally matters little, often it is the unheard whispers from the respective Governments via the governmental departments that shapes the final document, having listened to all the stakeholders.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I apologise for being naive enough to assume that a professional team of negotiators working with national bodies in conjunction with similar teams from across Europe, with the same interests and concerns, isn't able to put our case across strongly enough to an organisation openly admitting that its draft is flawed and stating that it doesn't aim to harm traditional model flying without recourse to adding the weight of a rambling, badly worded and presented petition. 

As pointed out, should this reach Parliament, we've then potentially jeopardised any chance of getting a more pertinent petition debated in the future should the negotiations not produce a reasonable proposal.

 

Edited By Martin Harris on 23/10/2016 13:56:50

[Peter Jenkins]

Erf

Instead of berating the rest of the hobby world for not getting on board a poorly worded plea for the UAV Industry (there is no mention of model flying in this) I cannot imagine why you think it's so wonderful to jump onto this industry band wagon. Added to that, if you had read Dave Phipps' note you would have seen that the FAI is involved and that the BMFA is playing a role in getting all the European Model Flying agencies to join forces and lobby for the specific requirements of flying and competing with Model Aircraft of all sorts and not just "drones" as represented by this petition.

So, the issue lies with you. Rather than encouraging modellers to put their name to a spurious petition, why don't you get behind the BMFA's initiative or does that go against the grain?

[Erfolg]

The point is there will be lots of people and lots of groups in this process, the more that push in our general direction the better. A lone voice will be drowned out if the general view is different.

Alliances will need to be built, common ground to be found. Part of this is also applying pressure via creating a background noise that is supportive of much of what we fixed wing model flyers wish to see continue.

At present I hear a deafening silence from supporters of fixed winged models, other than talking to ourselves.

[Peter Jenkins]

Erf, I suppose you have a point. 500,000 aero modellers across Europe, which is what the BMFA is in the process of doing, is really just a lone voice and as for the FAI (the Governing Body for Air Sports), and Europe Air Sports organisations....well, they're just amateurs in the game compared to you with years of experience sitting on Committees and forming alliances. We bow to your superior knowledge.

[Erfolg]

Ah, thank you Peter.

I am sure that we can see that there is a very big picture, where it is easy to think, there is no need to do anything.

[cymaz]

Is there some good news???

According to the reply to the letter, there might be...

[GONZO]

More bad news **LINK**

[Barnstormer 52]

Just seen a report on BBC News website - Heathrow bound Commercial Airliner near miss with a drone at 11,000 feet over Biggin Hill.

I was just wondering about the range of the Radio, but I suppose 11,000 feet is only 2 miles, but who would be controlling 'a football size' (to quote) drone at 11,000 feet?

Geoff

[Stumps]

The clue's in the report 'football' sized = balloon....

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Hopefully not the same FO who identified a drone impacting into his wing without leaving so much as a scuff mark...

[Tim Flyer]

Chinese lantern ?

[Phil Brooks]

Magenta? Very specific, as in football sized helium filled foil birthday greetings type balloon?

[GONZO]

Anyone care to enlighten me as to what make of 'football' size 'Drone' can reach 11,000ft altitude

[GrahamC]

This story suggests that a DJI Phantom 2 could make it all the way up to 11000 feet - but only just and it could only remain there for a moment if there is to be any possibility of a controlled descent. This latest pilot's claim that "I nearly hit a drone" sounds like a bit of a tall story to me. [Pun intended]

Just for fun, read this report and ask yourself what the headline would be it happened today. Seems like pilots are reporting less and less UFO's these days; all they see up there now are drones.

BTW I'm not arguing for the existence of or non existence of alien life forms; just pointing out that from time to time pilots "see things" and what they see is in no small part affected by what they expect it to be.

Here is the last two sentences of the story about UFO sighting: 

"Reports of sightings of UFOs peaked in 1996 in the UK - when science fiction drama The X Files was popular. According to the files, there were more than 600 reports in 1996, compared with an average of 240 in the previous five years."

And now everyone is talking about drones... 

 

 

 

 

Edited By GrahamC on 09/12/2016 18:21:19

[Fun Flyer]

I bet regulations weren't brought in to control UFO flying.  Aliens life forms can fly UFOs wherever they like. Typical!!

Edited By Fun Flyer on 09/12/2016 19:17:42

[Martin Whybrow]

Posted by GrahamC on 09/12/2016 18:18:32:

This story suggests that a DJI Phantom 2 could make it all the way up to 11000 feet - but only just and it could only remain there for a moment if there is to be any possibility of a controlled descent.

I think that story was busted when he claimed to have climbed at a rate 5 x faster than DJI claims the Phantom 2 can climb.

[ChrisB]

It's the media...they are the real problem because people believe everything they read!