NFC Update

[Cuban8]

Well done to all concerned.

The project deserves to be successful, and as I'm only a couple of hours drive with the caravan, we look forward to seeing what the site's like in May (no clash with Old Warden, thankfully).

[MattyB]

It is certainly a more pragmatic plan than a land purchase, and I wish them luck with the achievement of their goals - the site is as good as we could reasonably expect given the resources available to the BMFA. However I still think the financial model is somewhat rose-tinted, and not as "risk free" to members as it is portrayed:

• The BMFA are investing £335k within the first four year term of the lease (figures in this presentation). Lease costs are £18k in year 1, £27.4k year 2 onwards.
• You can probably add at least another £20-25k per annum to that for grass cutting, security, amenity charges etc (that is the only key figure they have missed out of their deck), so to stand still the project will have to generate revenues of ~£45-50k per annum at a minimum to be self funding. More than that will be needed if the proposed additional facilities are to be added.
• The independent report into available grant funding (commissioned by the BMFA and released prior to the EGM, but now no longer available on the web) stated that it was highly unlikely that lottery, EU or Government grants would be available unless economic benefits/development for the area could be proven. As a result the vast majority of capex will have to come from other sources.

I hope I am wrong, but I worry there just won't be enough onsite in the early years to attract the numbers of paying people (both members and general public) needed to bring in the necessary revenue. If this is just a nice field with toilets and camping facilities for the first few years will BMFA members travel long distances to fly there rather than popping down to our local club? Unless there is a nice café, gift shop, museum etc. it's why will members of the public pay to visit outside of big events like the Nationals weekend?

If at the end of the first four year lease period opex costs are still outstripping revenue the decision will be a tricky one. Does the BMFA invest more from reserves and/or the membership fee in order to get the additional facilities needed to bolster revenues to the break even point? Or walk away from the project and the £300k+ capital investment we have made to date? I suspect neither option would be popular with the members, so let's hope attendance is robust and fundraising efforts are successful so we don't get to that point.

Edited By MattyB on 08/12/2016 12:30:36

[Cuban8]

Posted by MattyB on 08/12/2016 12:10:11:

I hope I am wrong, but I worry there just won't be enough onsite in the early years to attract the numbers of paying people (both members and general public) needed to bring in the necessary revenue. If this is just a nice field with toilets and camping facilities for the first few years will BMFA members travel long distances to fly there rather than popping down to our local club? Unless there is a nice café, gift shop, museum etc. it's why will members of the public pay to visit outside of big events like the Nationals weekend?

Edited By MattyB on 08/12/2016 12:30:36

I suppose a fair comparison might be the Modelair days at Old Warden. They are still very popular and well attended, although not to the extent that many of us remember going back a few years. The NFC will have to create its own unique ambience if it's to attract flyers in anything like the numbers that are drawn to OW on a regular basis and I think that will remain to be seen.

Yes, I will visit and fly at the NFC, but will the experience be enough to attract me and others back on a regular basis? After all, an excellent flying field is available to me within ten minutes drive and as the NFC will remain just another field with a bit of rough camping tacked on -and not much else - (at least for the immediate future), the risk of it withering away from the very ambitious and vibrant vision being sold to us, is a worrying possibility.

[Martyn K]

My biggest worry would be the amount of available parking. If there is sufficient then there is no reason as far as I can see that shows like Weston could not be held at the NFC. That would bring in the punters and the trade stands.

Martyn

[Bob Cotsford]

One of my main concerns is how they will handle disabled flyers' facilities - how far from the parking to the pits, will there be car access to the pits to load and unload, how far from the pits to the flightline? Selfish, yes, but I'm sure I'm not the only one with mobility issues.

[Cuban8]

Posted by Martyn K on 16/12/2016 12:02:02:

My biggest worry would be the amount of available parking. If there is sufficient then there is no reason as far as I can see that shows like Weston could not be held at the NFC. That would bring in the punters and the trade stands.

Martyn

.............and getting the facilities up to anywhere near the quality and capacity to be able to run a large show is going to take time. It needs to be done quickly and that is going to mean funding! Playing devil's advocate here - but a £10 rise in BMFA membership would raise around an extra third of a miilion pounds annually - over three years, that's quite a useful sum.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I didn't vote for it, I still hold to the view we were not properly consulted on it, I have no intention what so ever of ever going there.

Why should I pay for this white elephant?

Especially as we have been "promised" that wouldn't happen. No, if you want to pay that's fine - a voluntary contribution would I am sure be very welcome. But don't commit my wallet to this please.

BEB

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Already been said "There will also be significant event overflow parking in addition to the formal parking".

Devils advocate aside C8, there's nothing to stop people donating £10 now, they have the system in place. Big ask at this stage to up fees and keep members happy, more likely to make some go elsewhere.

Maybe if competitions finals are to be held there, it'll move into the 21st century as a spectacle, as it is unless you're competing it's pretty dire stuff, as a spectator you haven't a clue what/who is flying/winning unless you seek out the little board or ask someone. You do not sell your selves folks, if people like myself are wanted through the gate to pay our money over, and future people encouraged to join the competitive ranks you need to make better use of your showpiece event.

John

[MattyB]

Posted by Cuban8 on 16/12/2016 12:48:33:

...Playing devil's advocate here - but a £10 rise in BMFA membership would raise around an extra third of a miilion pounds annually - over three years, that's quite a useful sum.

Only if everyone who is currently a member swallowed the increase!

Given the repeated statements since the EGM that the NFC project will be self funding that would surely be political suicide; if the BMFA leadership were to hike fees there would almost certainly be a significant exodus at exactly the moment we need to remain unified. I may not have a particularly high opinion of the BMFA governance model, but I don't think those within it are naive enough to backtrack on their promises so quickly. Far more likely is a "steady as she goes" self funding model for the first 4 years of the lease with a review of the strategy at that point if they have been unable to raise the extra funds needed to develop the site as targeted.

Edited By MattyB on 16/12/2016 14:09:03

[FilmBuff]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 16/12/2016 13:22:56:

I didn't vote for it, I still hold to the view we were not properly consulted on it, I have no intention what so ever of ever going there.

Why should I pay for this white elephant?

Especially as we have been "promised" that wouldn't happen. No, if you want to pay that's fine - a voluntary contribution would I am sure be very welcome. But don't commit my wallet to this please.

BEB

Bah Humbug!

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

LOL!

All I'm saying is hold them to their promise - no funding for this from a levy on membership. Surely that's fair? I'm perfectly happy for you, or anyone else, to pay for this if you wish to - I just don't think you, or anyone else, should volunteer my money. Reasonable I think?

I hope you enjoy it - and enjoy paying for it.

BEB

[Colin Leighfield]

There are a number of opportunities, some short term and others longer. I think this has good prospects and I'm happy to leave the team to manage it and get the results. Second guessing and giving them no credit for brains doesn't add value, I'm happy to wait and see what they do. Next year I will go and have a look for myself when suitable.

Edited By Colin Leighfield on 16/12/2016 19:23:16

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I wanna know when my no claims bonus kicks in

[Cuban8]

Trouble is, whether one is for or against the NFC, we are where we are with it and it needs a fair chance of success. As with many British grand ideas and projects, we fall over by thinking small and being parsimonious - getting stuff done 'on the cheap' is a national pastime.

I'm not overly impressed by the way the NFC has been sold to us and given the numbers of BMFA members who still haven't a clue as to what's going on, it's hardly a burning issue that's worrying most people. A £10 hike in subs would be unthinkable given the mantra that the NFC will be self funding, but without such a move it's tantamount to strangling it at birth - maybe that's what some will rejoice at; as with the runt of a litter, better not to waste resources on a no-hoper?

I wait with interest to see how things unfold, my own guess is that we'll wind up with little more than a flying site for competition use and not much else.

[Mike T]

Worse, we'll end up with a glorified Club site that only the lucky few who live relatively close will benefit from.

It really sticks in my craw that they are talking about preferential rates for 'regular visitors' - so the people who can make the most use of it will actually pay less than everyone else!

As for increases in the current fees, well we're hearing the predictable siren calls of the few who'd like their pleasures subsidised by the many. As BEB says, you pay if you want to.

 

Edited By Mike T on 17/12/2016 17:55:18

[Peter Christy]

The guy who started Goosedale (remember that?) never seemed to have any problems running at at a profit - or at least, not at a loss! And very popular it was, despite being nowhere near the middle of the country!

What did for him was falling out with the council over planning permission, I believe.

If that pitfall can be avoided, I see no reason why this venture cannot be successful.

Mind you, Goosedale was run by one man, and we all know that a benevolent dictatorship is the most efficient form of government. My worry would be if the NFC is run by a committee - the only known animal with many stomachs and no brains!

--

Pete

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Given the assurances at the EGM from the treasurer that there was to be no subsidisation from increased fees, I would be very disappointed if that became the case. Matty's financial analysis paints a rather gloomy picture so it would be good to hear the other side from the treasurer if he's watching this thread.

Mike's point reflects my personal opinion that the EGM attendance seemed more competition minded than the membership in general - this is not, by the way, any criticism of the process as it was open for all the franchised membership to be represented - although it does remind me that the Chairman's pledge to attempt to restructure the voting system to include all of the membership does not seem to have borne any fruit!

[iqon]

I suspect for it to be viable it will have some sort of venue using it leaving no time for club flyers to have a look in. So yes it could be self financed. But be of absolutely no use for flying. I hope i am wrong.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I've no interest in commenting on finances, time will be the judge if it works or not, fees have stayed same two agm's running ? so credit for that.

I'll take you up on the "something we shall look at" bit Martin, not heard a peep myself, we can run an NFC, interact with CAA + EASA but we can't put our own house in order and do right by 10,000 Members...or are they?

John...that'll be me an anti BMFAer now then i suppose

[Dave Wilshere]

I wasn't sure until recently, the SMAE/BMFA have handled certain things very badly in the past (I go back over 40 years and have an elephants memory) BUT, I'm very impressed with what I know so far.

The hobby is changing and will continue to, there are lot of people who travel some distance to fly and many who enjoy and support 'event' flying. I think the location is perfect and I will 100% support the NFC.

In the club hut today waiting for the fog to clear (it didn't) the membership talked about this and the 'air' was positive

Give it time, the lease length means that we can spend a few years getting the site right and still have a good few years with few fears. Nothing is certain any more, but hanging on to see how things go just wastes valuable years before many (all??) of us check out. I won't see the end of that lease.

 

 

Edited By Dave Wilshere on 17/12/2016 20:09:18