Rc Gyro (and other stuff too) Technology

[Rosco]

Hello all,

Before I say anything, I'd just like to say that this is not a 'bash the multi rotor' enthusiasts thread.

I'm interested to know how many of you use gyro technology on your models?

I've put this thread up because I had an interesting chat with a work colleague today that had me thinking in a couple of areas.

Before I go any further, the conversation was about drones (multi rotors) but afterwards I also thought about normal fixed wing models too.

Basically, I had a work colleague ask me a few weeks ago about the laws and qualifications regarding flying drones commercially. He knows I fly model aircraft so he thought I might know. I told him that I had never flown one and therefore I was not sure but I did know that for commercial use, a licence/qualification was needed.

Please take note, this is not what this thread is about so spare me your knowledge about qualifications please....

After that he looked into it and today mentioned all the info he had gathered and what he had been told after making some enquiries.

What struck me was the fact that he has never actually flown a model aircraft or multi rotor at that, and when I mentioned that setting one up for what he was interested in doing would take some time, he said 'nah, I've watched Youtube and guys just take them out of the box and fly them. They just plug in a battery and it Flys by itself....." he then proceeded to tell me all the things that they can automatically do - like return home if you lose contact or the battery starts to drain, hover if you lose control, keep themselves level....blah,blah blah (stuff I already knew!)


This had me thinking several thoughts....

1. No wonder multi rotors are taking off (pun intended) in sales around the world. Anyone can fly one (well...not really, the model does it for them!) and all they have to do is throttle it up/down and turn left/right.

2. How many people use gyros in their fixed wingers to fly better?

3. How many people CAN'T fly without a gyro.

Now... Don't get me wrong, I can see where the 'no thinking' part of using a gyro can assist but I for one DON'T use one and believe that flying models is best learned by using the controls and not relying on a gyro to keep it straight and level.

Just last weekend one of my flying buddies had his model twitching away whilst it was just sitting there waiting to take off (he did say it needed some extra fine adjustment) but it had me thinking that the only reason his model flies so nice is because it has a gyro making all the adjustments while it's moving along.
No disrespect meant towards his skills but can he really fly that well without it?

I've never used nor flown a model with one so really cannot say either way but it still makes me wonder....'with all this technology, are you really a better pilot (multi rotors included)?

Ps. I am aware that a multi rotor needs a gyro to keep itself stable. What I'm talking about is all the other features that makes them able to fly themselves with no thinking about input from the pilot, gyros in models included.


Rosco

Edited By Rosco on 21/05/2016 14:58:46

[Ben Kelly]

Hi Rosco,

I fly multirotors and even though a lot of the commercial 'Toy' grade drones will fly right out of the box more of the racing style drones take a lot more skill and concentration just like flying a FW aircraft.

 

I also fly FW and have recently installed a Multiplex MultiGyro G3 in my 30cc extra and it has made a world of difference. It has given me more confidence to fly the plane especially with aerobatics and on landing (our strip suffers from a case of the crosswinds) and with the gyro combatting the effect of the wind i can bring the plane in nice and smooth. However i also like to fly with the gyro off just so that i know i'm not relying on it too much.

 

I think it really comes down to personal preference. I have already ordered my second one to fit into my new Skybolt Biplane so that it doesn't end up in a bin bag too soon.

Edited By Ben Kelly on 21/05/2016 15:02:34

Edited By Ben Kelly on 21/05/2016 15:03:09

[John Privett]

I've not used gyros in anything except helicopters. One of our club members uses a gyro in a twin (ic) powered model after crashing two or three of them in the past when one engine cut. The gyro - in his case at least - made a big difference and he no longer crashes when an engine dies in flight.

Other than that, a couple of beginners have turned up with foamy models with the Horizon Hobby "SAFE" system installed. It seems to work for them in the initial learning stages anyway.

Ali Machinchy used gyros on the impressive Lightning that he flew a couple of years ago and admitted that trying to fly it with the gyros turned off was a mistake - they convert a plane that is very twitchy in the roll axis into something that's flyable. Have a listen to what Ali himself says about it in this video from about 2:40 onwards.

[Dave Hopkin]

Don't have any gyros and don't plan on buying any - Did have one on an Apprentice when I first started - replaced it with a normal RX after a few weeks - I wont criticise anyone that wants one but I want to continue to learn how to fly with my (dumb) thumbs doing the stabilising not an electronic gizmo

[Jack Banner]

I have some planes with gyro stabilisation in them and some without. Would I put a gyro in a super 60? Of course not. Would I try and fly a 20cm span EDF jet without one? Not twice

It's horses for courses really. Some guys at our club are very vocal about how it is cheating, they don't work (cant set them up more like), real men fly without etc. and the rest of us just get on and use them where we think they will help.

I think one of the big misconceptions around stabilisation systems in planes is that they make it easy to fly a plane well. They don't, they just make the plane easier to control and that ain't the same thing. My best example of this is my Dereck Woodward "Bigger Bit". I have a single channel gyro on the rudder servo. The gain is very low and all it really does is assist in keeping it straight on take off. The plane has a very high AoA on the ground and is massively over-powered. Without the gyro a take off with a side wind is very exciting indeed.With it I can make it a much more sedate and predictable affair.

I do agree there is no need for them in club trainers though. Basic skills are best learnt without a veil of technological complexity that isn't required.

JMO though.

[Denis Watkins]

A stabiliser fitted to a substantial fixed wing model ( on or above 6lb ), and of high value, is a no brainer. E.G. a £500 10lb Spitfire will not be prevented from crashing, but will smooth out crosswind and any landing for that matter. The Stabiliser will not fly the model, and the model will return to Earth just as quickly as a non stabilised model. Stabilisers are switched off during aerobatic maneuvers and just give a margin of confidence on twitchy designs.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Absolutely right Denis, it is a no brainer, fit one if you wish or not if you wish.

John

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

i use them extensively in my proifessional flying on both multirotors and fixed wing. The reason is simple, I am flying for the pimary purpose of gathering data - performing some specific task. Frankly I don't want to fly the aircraft at that point - or at least I want the flying work load to be very low - as I have to focus on the purpose of the mission.

But I can fly multi-rotors without any stabilsation - only a heading lock gyro as you would use on a helicopter - I do this when I fly for my own entertainment. And I have never used gyros in fixed wing models I fly for a hobby. I have seen colleagues benefit from them - allowing them to extend the range of weather within which they can enjoy their hobby. But personally I pefer the challenge - even if sometimes the outcome is a bit less tidy!

In the end, as others have said, its purely a matter of personal preference and no one is better or worse becuase they do or don't use stabilisation technology. But one thing I would say, I think learners should not be too dependent on this technical feature at the outset. Every pilot should ABLE to fly safely without the aid of stabilisation, they may not choose to do so but that's a different matter. The reason i believe this is that they must be able to at least land safely in the event of the gyro failing.

[Geoff S]

My Super Stearman (6kg/30cc Mackay petrol) started being very squirrely on the take off run and just about impossible to keep straight so as an experiment I fitted a gyro on the rudder. As I was fitting it I noticed the tyres were very worn (we fly off tarmac) and it reminded me that I'd had similar problems with a Precedent Funfly a few years back with some foam wheels. So I did a bad thing and changed 2 things at once - fitted the gyro and new wheels. Take-off is easy now but I'm not sure which modification improved things. Anyway the gyro doesn't seem to be a problem so I've left it.

Geoff

[cymaz]

There is a useful thread on RCGroups if you would like to see more? It seems people have been flying with them for years.

[bouncebounce crunch]

I don't use them or have any experience with gyros but the conversation and use within my aeromodelling club is a minority. Some of our learners and 3D style modellers use them; we have had a few discussions regarding Sopwith Camels and Texans being good benefactors of said technology to stop the dreaded ground looping.

I like to fly with my fingers and eyes rather than technology do it for me, I feel a real sense of achievement mastering a manouver or a model (maybe Master might be a bit of a stretch in my case) but i will agree that some models will need the gyros, plenty of others definately don't.

I can't see anything wrong with a modeller doing everything they can to make sure their pride and joy goes home in a reasonable condition either , but what i don't agree with is, too much technological assistance in competition. all it gets is those that can afford the latest assists and those that can't.

[Rosco]

Thanks guys.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with using them either. If it helps to bring your models home in one piece then it is a good thing.

I'd like to think it's like an apprenticeship.....first you learn the hard way and then you learn the easy way...!

Rosco

[Denis Watkins]

Just to clarify the use of a stabiliser on a fixed wing model. No novice pilot could fly my 7 foot wingspan Piper Cub, with or without a stabiliser. It has a flat wing, no dihedral, huge flat sides and a huge tail. I fly it scale mostly and the Cub benefits from an on/off stabiliser in the wind. The stabiliser takes quite a bit of initial setting up and tuning, and does not fly the aircraft at all. The Cub will happily bury itelf under the ground if I take my eyes of it and no novice could fly it. A Stabiliser will Stabilise such a model in the wind as well as ungainly warbirds. These stabilisers are not " hands off controls " like SAFE or GPS driven units. They operate the control surface long before the pilot has to deal with a tip stall, and subsequent repair.