will -0 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Posted by Martin Harris on 20/07/2016 20:59:04: The point I was trying to make was that an engine failure should not hazard anyone on the ground if normal airshow guidelines are being followed - therefore a possible engine fault is not an unacceptable risk as, for example, would be a poor radio installation or poorly constructed/maintained airframe. Indeed and one of the delights of a model show over a full size one is that there's no pilot in the aircraft so the aircraft can be risked in ways that would not be possible otherwise, eg low speed, low level aerobatics where an engine problem can give the results above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Simmons Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 When I was learning to fly full sized gliders, we had to practice dealing with all types of emergencies so you deal with it quickly without thinking about it. Now I fly model planes and accept that I will crash my pride and joy to prevent it hitting anybody if there is a risk, even if you are doing all things correct and the other person is in the wrong place/area walking towards the flying area ignoring the warning shouts to move away. I accept that according to Sod's law can and will happen and failures do happen to all of us. I feel sad that there are accidents resulting in 2.4 deaths on our roads every minute around the world but we accept it and carry on (1.25m per year). but full sized air shows and model planes, as it's a rarity we suffer. Edited By Keith Simmons on 21/07/2016 10:17:14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Android Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I wish Mr Skipton every success with His replacement Airframe . Delighted that he has kept His spirits up , and I am quite staggered by the somewhat vicious criticism . I do not subscribe to trial by media , which simply plays into the hands of the gutter - press and opinions are often best kept to ourselves. Modellers are under enough pressure without shooting ourselves in the foot . Easy to hide behind a keyboard , and we all stray off the mark at times , it's a fine line twixt argument , opinion and discussion . Mia Culpa . hope my Jankers ends soon. Keep em Flyin . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extra slim Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 here here...Peter, well put... although I tried to say the same but was "told off".... Modellers are under enough pressure without shooting ourselves in the foot ... absolutely.. I like shows but if anyone wishing to put one on or underwrite one, reading some of the opinions on here, in relation to what was a non event, explained perfectly by an organiser and by the pilot himself, no one remotely in any danger, and safely handled..... would spell the end.. some of it is akin to ambulance chasing IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Skipton - Skip Model Designs Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I can understand that people have different views on what is acceptable and what it not.however.everyone is very focused on my engine, but several people have experianced the same problem with a variation of engines. So why is everyone still going on about it. IF YOU cant accept that issues can happen at public events and i or other modellers make you fear for your safety. Then dont come to the events.Simple.Statiatically however, you are more likely to be in a car crash leaving the show than been hit my a model!.Im not going to be drawn in to this argument anymore. The fault has been found. The plane was flew away from the public before it crashed so i was on the other side of the runway ( some 50m - 100m away from the crowd!).. if any one does upload the full video you will see!.And if i felt anyone was in danger,the plane would have been put in the ground by me without thinking.As i stated before. Instead of writing on here and complaining or trying to pick apart my maintenance. Give me a call! My number is in a previous post. I will be more than happy to go through all that has to go in to getting a plane like this ready!Anyway. Thank you again for all the supportive comments. The new one is well underway now and i will start a new thread with the build and design soon ( maybe i can be picked apart about the build as well)Lots of loveROBBIE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Skipton - Skip Model Designs Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 With regards to financing... yes it is expensive. But you have to remember. Im a scratch builder. So while you are spending ?1200 on a new 100 - 150cc model artf. For the same money i can build a 65% model uncovered. The servos etc still cost the same. Just i need more to do the same. I still have to buy one or two one week and more the next! Im not a millionaire ( yet lol)The 68% got built in 1 year. It still took me over 8 months to buy all the bits to go in it! So i dont understand why people think you have to be stupidly rich to afford a model like this size of model! Just takes longer to get the plane in thr air than a 100 - 150cc( space is the problem to store it tho, hence mine are stored at work ha ha) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Having had a public crash.....I feel your pain and frustration Keep up the good work. Looking forward to see the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 9 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Posted by Robbie Skipton on 21/07/2016 20:12:41: With regards to financing... yes it is expensive. So i dont understand why people think you have to be stupidly rich to afford a model like this size of model! Just takes longer to get the plane in thr air than a 100 - 150cc maybe it was the price you are asking for the parts set on your website Will you need a new engine or is the original salvageable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Skipton - Skip Model Designs Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Lmao! Its not that bad considering what you are getting... and i dont ask for all the money upfront.We are awaiting 2 new plug caps and a new plug to try the engine. It turns over smoothly. Lucky the wing took the impact. So will let you know. Electronics are still not tested ( will be tomorrow if customers allow me to). We are sending the powerbox back anyway to get it all checked aa yoy cant be too sure if anything has gone... belt and braces etcEdited By Robbie Skipton on 21/07/2016 21:00:33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Modellers under pressure ? You need a hobby fellas John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Simmons Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 You have my full respect Robbie. Enjoy your hobby and do what tick's your boxes. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Skipton - Skip Model Designs Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I love large models! Dont Get me wrong.. But as im now at the old age of 30... My eye sight is going.... So my excuse is "i need bigger planes to be able to see them in the sky"...,.. It always looked like a foamie to me lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 9 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 did it fly like a foamie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Skipton - Skip Model Designs Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Depends what i was doing. It was very light on sticks when doing slow stuff, and when i was doing harriers with it last year, was certainly as slow as a foamy. But didnt glide to well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 I'm late to this one, so excuse me if what I say has already been said. I'm not sure full size procedures are relevant to this discussion. This isn't a machine capable of carrying human (or any other) life. The model was a superb looking bit of kit. We have no reason to suspect maintenance was not in accordance with LMA procedure. The model was being flown away from spectators, in a display area where any kit problems would minimise any risk to spectators. It sadly suffered engine failure at the worst possible moment. Downwind at low speed and low height with a crowd nearby your options are as minimal as it gets. I don't see anything in the video that calls piloting skills into question. To my mind the only real lesson coming out of this is that multi cylinder two strokes have a big weakness, if they lose all power when one cylinder lets go for whatever reason. All the best to Mr Skipton getting the replacement bipe in the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Posted by SuperNash on 22/07/2016 09:15:48: I'm not sure full size procedures are relevant to this discussion. This isn't a machine capable of carrying human (or any other) life. The model was a superb looking bit of kit. We have no reason to suspect maintenance was not in accordance with LMA procedure. Agree with all of that. Safety is very, very important, but it has to be credible and proportional. The funny thing is, the critics who are pointing out the dangers due to it being practically full size are generally the same people who, last week, were busy telling me that, in fact, small models could be much more dangerous than big ones! Edited By The Wright Stuff on 22/07/2016 09:35:20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 There is no question in my mind that the model was being operated safely, the pilot took the appropriate action and people were never at any risk. My post a page or so back was simply expressing the view that if a) this is a known issue with ZDZ engines, b) no amount of maintenance or checking can prevent such an issue occurring, and c) ZDZ do not respond to queries and are not obviously working on a fix, I personally would not want to invest in a multi-thousand pound airframe to be powered by the same engine that failed. The idea of losing a model like this to an unavoidable but known mechanical failure is bad enough; losing a second would be even more painful. Edited By MattyB on 22/07/2016 14:30:40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 At least Robbie needn't be worried about the warranty if he wants to helicoil the plug threads now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Skipton - Skip Model Designs Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 We are trying to come up with a locking system to solve this issue.... all else fails gaffer tape solves all lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owdlad Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Trying to be constructive, so can you please clarify the problem 1. Is it the plug that's coming loose? 2. Or is it the plug cap that's detaching from the plug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Skipton - Skip Model Designs Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 The plug unwound from the engine while in the plug cap. So both detached from engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Android Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Just a thought, maybe ? **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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