Horus is nearly upon us...

[Andy48]

but, but, but... it simply doesn't work that way thanks to OpenTX.

Yes you still have quality components (screen, joysticks) determining price, but most of the top end transmitters also rely on the range of software features available to lever up their price.

OpenTX, however, provides as good or better software features as the most expensive transmitters out there, so in FrSky's case, you are simply paying for the hardware features, and an extra £350 above the Taranis for a better screen, better joysticks and a prettier case which seems an awful lot to me.

As BEB says, FrSky have wasted a great deal of time and money on their own software system, whereas they could have worked with the OpenTX team to take a version of OpenTX as they did with the Taranis.

[Andy Meade]

I am sure their reasoning behind it will be to cut into the big boys market. Steal some of those Jeti and Futaba sales, where customers are happy to pay for the hardware premium and still use a menu driven OS.

For what it is, and what it can do, I still belive it's a great price for the unit. The hardware does apparently feel just as good as the Jeti top stuff but now a third of the price and with potentially more programming power.

[Mike T]

I've been looking forward to this, but the price tag is going to force a re-think - mainly looking at 2nd-hand JR11X-Zeros.

I can appreciate that FrSky have reacted to the criticism of Taranis' lack of 'plug & play' functionality, but maybe the better sales strategy would have been to release Horus with Open Tx (thus capturing the mature Taranis upgrade market) and follow up with a downloadable plug & play system once the surge of 'upgrade' sales had subsided.

Releasing now and at £480, I think they've missed the boat with the collapse of the £ and the general air of economic uncertainty following you-know-what...

[MattyB]

Posted by Andy48 on 28/07/2016 17:00:50:

but, but, but... it simply doesn't work that way thanks to OpenTX.

Yes you still have quality components (screen, joysticks) determining price, but most of the top end transmitters also rely on the range of software features available to lever up their price.

OpenTX, however, provides as good or better software features as the most expensive transmitters out there, so in FrSky's case, you are simply paying for the hardware features, and an extra £350 above the Taranis for a better screen, better joysticks and a prettier case which seems an awful lot to me.

As BEB says, FrSky have wasted a great deal of time and money on their own software system, whereas they could have worked with the OpenTX team to take a version of OpenTX as they did with the Taranis.

I sort of see where you are going, but creating a menu driven UI on top of OpenTX would have been suicide as that could then have been reused by any of their competitors at zero cost (any such developments would have had to be submitted back to the community under the terms of the open source agreement).

Ultimately this comes down to one slightly painful truth to established FrSky users... We are not the primary audience for the Horus. Many here will not like this, but it is the truth. I am in this group – all I really want is some improved hardware that runs OpenTX. But step back and look at the reality here... FrSky can only grow so far selling transmitters based on OpenTX to the relatively small percentage of the market who already have them. They therefore want to grab users from mainstream brands because a) there are lots of them, b) they will buy lots of additional receivers and telemetry sensors in addition to the TX when they move from their current sets, and c) they are used to paying higher prices for their kit, potentially driving more profit and growth for FrSky. This is a business decision, pure and simple.

The problem is that a significant % of big brand users (more than 50%, and perhaps much higher) want a traditional menu driven TX and aren’t open to a different approach (“…nah, that OpenTX is too complicated for me mate" ). As a result FrSky have had to develop their own firmware, but unfortunately software development takes time and costs money, and the delays and additional development work that was needed now seem to be reflected in a higher than expected sticker price.

FrSky committed to this strategy years ago, and are clearly not going to change at this late stage – the price has to be set to allow them to recover the development costs whilst reaching a new audience. Now that Horus is priced at significantly more than DX9 moneythey are going to have a harder time in the marketplace, but they could still be successful - don’t forget many of their target market have existing sets that cost £1k+, so £500 is not necessarily a barrier; it could even help them with some buyers (I’ve lost count of the number of times my Taranis has been dismissed by others as “too cheap to be any good”!). If they are wrong it will be discounted, but I can't imagine that happening anytime soon; even at the new price point there will be plenty of takers given the level of anticipation that has built over the years.

Only time will tell if they have got the strategy right and they can take a chunk out of the mainstream brands. We will probably know in 12 months time – if they are still unobtainium at the dealers and Horus’ are commonplace amongst club fliers who previously used Futaba, JR or Spek then they will have been successful. Anything less will I suspect be deemed as a failure.

Edited By MattyB on 02/08/2016 17:56:07

[Andy Meade]

The proper manual for the S6R Rx is up, if anyone is still interested :

http://www.frsky-rc.com/download/view.php?sort=&down=271&file=Manual-S6R

[Rich too]

Posted by Mike T on 28/07/2016 18:36:48:

I've been looking forward to this, but the price tag is going to force a re-think - mainly looking at 2nd-hand JR11X-Zeros.

I can appreciate that FrSky have reacted to the criticism of Taranis' lack of 'plug & play' functionality, but maybe the better sales strategy would have been to release Horus with Open Tx (thus capturing the mature Taranis upgrade market) and follow up with a downloadable plug & play system once the surge of 'upgrade' sales had subsided.

Releasing now and at £480, I think they've missed the boat with the collapse of the £ and the general air of economic uncertainty following you-know-what...

Very odd strategy, the usp was the price and open tx, and now they have moved completely away from that.

[MattyB]

So did anyone order one from the first batch? Any first reports? Looking at the RCG thread it looks like there are quite a few initial (though relatively minor) issues as is to be expected with a TX based on all new hardware and firmware.

[Masher]

Changed my mind

 

Edited By Masher on 05/09/2016 18:50:11

[Barry Pickering]

Got my Horus from T9's first batch and I'm loving it. Down loaded OpenTx firmware ( never considered FrSky OS )and have copied two models from my Taranis manually just to get to used to the programming controls. Hopefully I will get to the flying site tomorrow to do real flying with it. Programming is exactly the same as for the Taranis though a lot easier with the rotary dial. The transmitter is heavier but feels more solid & the switches & gimbles are second to none. There is still a lot of work to be done by the people that are doing the firmware but like the Taranis it will be a cracker when finished.

[MattyB]

Posted by Barry Pickering on 05/09/2016 20:23:13:

Got my Horus from T9's first batch and I'm loving it. Down loaded OpenTx firmware ( never considered FrSky OS )and have copied two models from my Taranis manually just to get to used to the programming controls. Hopefully I will get to the flying site tomorrow to do real flying with it. Programming is exactly the same as for the Taranis though a lot easier with the rotary dial. The transmitter is heavier but feels more solid & the switches & gimbles are second to none. There is still a lot of work to be done by the people that are doing the firmware but like the Taranis it will be a cracker when finished.

Good stuff, but if everyone who orders from the early batches goes to OpenTX within days of receiving their TX it is difficult to see how FrOS will ever gain any momentum or help FrSky to capture people from the big brands.

[Andy Meade]

I missed out on the first batch due to having to buy 4 new tyres for my daily drive. I have been following the RCG threads closely, and have seen nothing to put me off yet. I will save my pennies and see if I can get on this month's shipment from T9.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

IF I buy a Horus (and that is a very big IF at this price!) I too will have no truck with FrOS - why sould I?

No one is a bigger fan of Taranis than me - I think it is superb. But let's think carefully about this - the reality is I'm not a fan of Taranis as such - though I do like the competative pricong!! In reality, I'm a fan of OpenTx - which just happens to run on Taranis! I suspect there are a lot like me - and FrSky might do well to remember that! You see if someone else brings out a mid range Tx that runs OpenTx FrSky may well find that their user community's loyality is not, as they might expect, to them but to the operating system they are using.

BEB

[Bob Cotsford]

I'm also a big fan of Taranis and OpenTX, but what I really love is Frsky's price point for it's excellent receivers and the Taranis transmitter. I can't see myself paying over £400 for a Horus as I don't see what advantage it would offer me personally, but I would have paid somewhere in between for a Taranis with upgraded sticks, a scrollwheel and maybe an enhanced display. Sort of a Taranis ++.

So, does anyone moving up to a Horus want to pass on their redundantTaranis +?

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Yeap, exactly my point Bob. A sort of Super Taranis, with better hardware, running OpenTx, for £250-£300 quid would get my wallet open!

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 06/09/2016 21:57:43

[MattyB]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 06/09/2016 18:10:02:

IF I buy a Horus (and that is a very big IF at this price!) I too will have no truck with FrOS - why sould I?

No one is a bigger fan of Taranis than me - I think it is superb. But let's think carefully about this - the reality is I'm not a fan of Taranis as such - though I do like the competative pricong!! In reality, I'm a fan of OpenTx - which just happens to run on Taranis! I suspect there are a lot like me - and FrSky might do well to remember that! You see if someone else brings out a mid range Tx that runs OpenTx FrSky may well find that their user community's loyality is not, as they might expect, to them but to the operating system they are using.

See my previous post - FrSky are not after selling these to existing users, they want those who have historically spent £350-1000 on big brand radios. A "Super Taranis" might be a good seller to existing FrSky users, but it wouldn't generate much growth in market share or profits as OpenTX is still a minority choice. Problem is if all the early buyers scoot over to OpenTX straight away they are going to find it very hard to convince Futaba, JR or Spek devotees to change based on their first sight of a Horus.

Edited By MattyB on 07/09/2016 00:38:37

[Andy Meade]

As above. I'm not after cheap flimsy hardware like the Taranis feels to me. I want an upgrade from my 10C, and really I was looking at the MZ Futaba range if the FRsky Hours wasn't being released.

Looking through the operators manual, I am happy to see FRskys OS looks familiar with the menu systems I am used to, but with better integration of my telemetry sensors than the add on screen I currently use.

I might dabble with Open TX at some point, maybe after playing with the companion a bit, but really the hardware and compatibility with my current suite of FRSKY RXs is what is selling it to me. Especially at a price that's a third of an MZ! Bargain.

Edited By Andy Meade on 07/09/2016 00:51:21

[Rich too]

It looks great, but my money will still be going on the Futaba 14 sg.

[MattyB]

Posted by Rich2 on 07/09/2016 08:05:45:

It looks great, but my money will still be going on the Futaba 14 sg.

Just in the spirit of understanding, can I ask why? The 14SG does a fair bit less, though it is also a bit cheaper. Are you concerned about FrSky QC, the new OS, or something else?

[Rich too]

Yeah, I do not want or need all the bells and whistles, and certainly do not want to get into opentx. I want the 14SG just for the extra channels, and I have been a Futaba man for over 30 years

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Interesting response Rich. Of course I absolutely respect your right to your position - afterall it's your Tx and your money! But I am (like Matty I suspect) very curious. You say "I certianly don't want to get into OpenTx" can I ask why? Have you looked at it? Do you know what it can offer you? Are you not even curious to find out if it can offer you something additional?

I am really not being confrontational here, nor do I mean to challenge your position in any way. Its just that I asociate RC aircraft with people who are technically progressive and naturally interested in at least exploring any new development to assess its worth - but you are not alone in taking the postion you do - ie that this is one development you will not explore and I am genuinely interested to try to understand why.

BEB

[Devcon1]

I've been eyeing up the Horus as a replacement for my 1st gen DX8 for a while now for the following reasons.

I can't use the telemetry with a Vario, the prohibitive cost of peripherals and lack of audio but at the same time I enjoy using it and it's been rock solid in its performance and will continue to be used.

However I think it's time to move on and embrace something new. The overall hardware package of the Horus looks terrific with some great feedback from those that now have them in their hands.

It looks like the stock Frsky OS seems to be OK but I'd like to try opentx but I'm getting nervous when I read about flashing, root directories, bootloader's and firmware etc.

Am I being unduly concerned or is it easier than I Imagine.

It would be great to see a review of this potential game changer transmitter in the mag.

John

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I don't believe there is any need to worry about OpenTx. True, it was a bit "geeky" at first.. Manuals and structured information was hard to come by. You had to frequent weird forums (yes, there are much weirder forums than this one!!), pick up bits here and there etc. Engage in a lot of "trial and error". Also we had the whole "Rest of the world", "EU" and LBT" thing that was a bit of a fiasco!

But that is history now. OpenTx is very stable at present. One of the good things that Taranis has brought to it I think is a realisation amoung the OpenTx development community that its not just their "curiousity driven pet project" anymore - its a serious system being used out there. That is obviously something that they like, but it does mean they have to be more disciplined - which, to be fair, they are.

Today there are several excellent "get you started" guides avialble free, Andy Phillips version (downloadable from here) is a good place to start. Also there is now a strong body of experience in the hands of actual RC flyers - not computer geeks - people like us who have a practical, user driven, approach and can help, advise, provide examples etc. So its much easier to get started in OpenTx now than it was say 2 years ago.

One thing I would say, and I think this is the key to really understanding and really getting to grips with OpenTx. You need to approach it with an open mind - do not think this is "just another transmitter progrmamming interface" - its not. It is a diffierent way of thinking about the whole thing. So be prepared to start with a "blank sheet of paper" attitude. If you do, you will be rewarded; you will pick it up very quickly and will expand your knowledge quickly because you will be in the right way of thinking about it. But if you constantly approach OpenTx as if it were a traditional Tx interface like Futaba or Spektrum you will a) always struggle with it; because its not b) never get the best out of it.

In my opinion it really is worth the effort to come to terms with it - OpenTx is fabulously powerful in terms of what you can achieve - once you do "get it" you will never want to go back to the restrictions of a "traditional" Tx programming system believe me!

BEB

[Andy48]

Thanks for the link to my docs BEB, its Martin not Andy.

I almost fully agree with BEB about OpenTX. Sadly there are those out there who really do not want to move forward or embrace anything new, and shun any new technology hoping it will go away. The reality is it won't and so much of our lives are being changed by that technology. However, that is a separate, but interesting, debate.

I do think the Horus is rather expensive, but I've finally taken the plunge and ordered one from T9 with the help of some birthday money. Each new model I build comes with its own challenges with regard to the transmitter requirements, be it a foolproof electric arm switch or aileron differentials, and each time OpenTX comes up trumps with an elegant solution.

Obviously the OpenTX team are focusing on getting the transmitter side functioning well first before adapting it to work on the Companion. I suspect that will not be far behind. As my Taranis documentation was written with from the starting point of the Companion, once the Horus Companion is available, I will update the documentation for the Horus. Watch this space, though don't expect anything that quickly.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by Andy48 on 08/09/2016 11:33:13:

Thanks for the link to my docs BEB, its Martin not Andy.

Opps, sorry Bill .

Seriously apologies Martin!

BEB

[Rich too]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 07/09/2016 20:10:06:

Interesting response Rich. Of course I absolutely respect your right to your position - afterall it's your Tx and your money! But I am (like Matty I suspect) very curious. You say "I certianly don't want to get into OpenTx" can I ask why? Have you looked at it? Do you know what it can offer you? Are you not even curious to find out if it can offer you something additional?

I am really not being confrontational here, nor do I mean to challenge your position in any way. Its just that I asociate RC aircraft with people who are technically progressive and naturally interested in at least exploring any new development to assess its worth - but you are not alone in taking the postion you do - ie that this is one development you will not explore and I am genuinely interested to try to understand why.

BEB

No problem, it just does not interest me in the slightest. Perhaps, the lack of free time that I have is a factor, I barely have time to build and fly. I just want to build and fly. Don't get me wrong, I am moving into bigger models now and that is a learning curve in itself.

And I am not shunning new technology. Although, there is a lot of over complication these days (not suggesting that's the case with OpenTx), take cars for example, my last one broke down and went into limp mode - because it needed a software update on the trans!! That's just plain ridiculous.

In fact, I am only recently an Apple convert. But you see that's not because of the Apple product, that's more because I got fed up with poor Windows products. I bought a mini Ipad on a whim at an airport two years ago and have never looked back.

Each to their own. Perhaps, if I ever retire, I'll have the time to look into OpenTx