Which Low Wing Trainer??

[Chris gregg]

hello,

With Christmas round the corner and me progressively learning to fly my eflite apprentice on advance mode come January i will be looking at getting a new plane, i am new to building planes so would like a low wing IC plane to advance to from my apprentice.

My question is when what plane is most forgiving and ''easier'' to handle? also i would like a plane that doesn't have to much assembly required as its my first ic model.

I do have specktum dx6 that i can use also would just need to buy the reciever to go into the plane.

[ChrisB]

For your first IC model I'd recommend something like the Black Horse Travel Air or Super Air or the Seagull 40.

They are all suitable for 40-50 size engines, something like an Irvine 46 or ASP 52.

You'll have to install your chosen engine and fuel tank, servos, receiver, battery and switch.

Fit the UC, glue the tail on and glue the wing halves together, glue and pin the control surfaces and set up the control throws, directions and centre of gravity.

A weekends work will see it done. The bits that take the longest are gluing the wing halves together and gluing the tail on..mostly waiting for the glue to dry. I use 1hr or 24hr epoxy.

Cheers

[Denis Watkins]

I would seriously consider an IC Trainer 1st Chris to take you forward, usually they have more weight and inertia to deal with. Look up 2 Seagull models, the Swinger 25 and the Boomerang 46, And the Wot 4 IC. The ultimate choice is yours.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Chris gregg]

i understand the reason for a high wing trainer at 1st, better than a broken plane!

i just though with having experience with a high wing apprentice i could move to low wing, but it seems from you guys flying a high wing IC to electric high wing is completly different??

If thats the case i guess i should go with the high wing i just dont want to out grow the high wing to soon if you get me

thanks for all your replies

chris

[rcaddict]

get a wot 4 artf - you will never outgrow it - and you can have IC or EP

[Denis Watkins]

Chris, you could do your "B" Certificate with a Boomerang, but that is not important. With a foamy trainer you can "get a moment" to collect your thoughts, during a flight, they do fly well when trimmed out. With the extra weight and inertia of IC and Large Electrics, there are fewer moments to "change your mind" in flight. It is difficult to put into words, but learn to fly IC like you did your 1st electric, and you have the advantage now as you know the "sticks" better. Get to know your IC and keep an eye on the low wingers for future. The Travel Air and Speed Air are strong low wing models to move onto.

[ChrisB]

As others have said.

High wingers worth having are Seagull Boomerang and Wot 4

[Jon H]

I agree with the guys suggesting you go for a high wing ic trainer. Compared to the apprentice any IC model will be like a brick and when it comes to landing you need to completely change your landing speed etc.

Its not a difficult change, but it will come as a shock to the system as landing speeds will be double or perhaps triple what the apprentice is capable of

[ChrisB]

Are you in a club Chris? As there will be members who can help you with setup and flying.

[Chris gregg]

yes im going to be joing smithy mac in handforth manchester, im meeting fellow member tim on friday to take my apprentice for a fly and hes very kindly said i can buddy up on his boomerang!!

glad i know i got aloy of good advice off you guys whilst starting up

Edited By Chris gregg on 07/11/2016 23:07:05

[Philflyer]

Hi Chris. Before you decide, have a look at this thread

ARTF Seagull 40 Low wing Trainer.

I've had 2 Boomerangs and they are great. However my 2nd one is now just about worn out but I will not buy another high winger. As others have said here the Boomerang will do just about everything including the B schedule, so what's the problem? The main reason is they are a handful in strong crosswinds and here in South Wales that seems to be the norm.. The good thing about a heavier ic engined model is you can fly in just about any wind less than 15 knots and when you get bit more experienced you will want to push the boundaries. Landing well in a good crosswind gives you a great feeling but that all disappears if the wind gets under the wing and upsets it just when you think you are safely down - and it will. Also inverted flying is harder with a high winger with any amount of dihedral. They are naturally unstable when upside down. Have a look at the thread. Everyone says the Seagull 40 is stable and a great flier. I think it could make the next step for you if you feel you have outgrown the Apprentice. Yes the landing speed will be higher but it will be with a Boomerang anyway. The key factor is can you handle your aircraft well in the roll axis. That is the main difference between a stable high winger and a low winger. The high wing with dihedral has built in roll stability. Even so the Seagull 40 also has dihedral so still has some stability. It will not correct itself if you get in trouble and let go of the sticks hoping it will sort itself out, but the Boomerang won't either. None of us on this forum know how well you handle your present airframe so we are all guessing, and a high wing trainer is the safest advice. It may also be a waste of hard earned cash. You are going to make up your own mind no matter what we say here so take look at all the options and let us know how you get on.

[IanN]

Posted by ChrisB on 07/11/2016 19:09:19:

For your first IC model I'd recommend something like the Black Horse Travel Air or Super Air or the Seagull 40.

+1 for the Super Air.

Slightly bigger than the Seagull 40. Nice big wing and has a wide performance envelope. it was the model I felt most comfortable with when transitioning from my trainer, and will do all you want as you progress.

You say you're joining a club. In that case I'd suggest skipping the high wing i.c. trainer and going straight down the low wing route, but via a buddy box for your first few flights - I guess when you've had that buddy session on the Boomerang you'll know for yourself which is the right route for you

[Jon H]

I wouldnt recommend the super air. Its a great model but the undercarriage are mounted to the wings and if you land heavy you can do major damage to the wings. Once proficient with IC models it would be a good choice though. The Travel air is better in this regard but i have already tried to transition one 'customer' from electric foamy (st discovery) to a travel air and it didnt go very well. He struggled with the higher stall speed for quite some time. That said, we got there in the end.

Its a shame they dont make moonrakers any more as to me they were the best trainer ever made. Easy to fly, fully capable, only needed a small/cheap engine and would bite if you really really pushed it. It was also really strong.

Oh well

[ChrisB]

Glad to hear your in contact with a club. I know of Tim and the Smithy MAC..you won't go far wrong with them!

[The Wright Stuff]

I'd personally recommend the Speed Air over the Super Air, if you are transitioning into low wing IC. It's just that little bit more docile, and the ground handling is much nicer!

[Cuban8]

A chap I know had one of these **LINK**

as a first low winger. Rediculously easy to fly and nicely retro with a good pedigree.

They do an ARTF version as wellhttp://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=46302

Edited By Cuban8 on 08/11/2016 09:59:40

[iqon]

Blackhorse renegade, for when you are ready.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

The Boomerang is good - in fact its great - but its definitely a level up from the Apprentice - maybe two levels up!

Firstly it flys qute fast for trainer - its a fair weight.

Secondly it has a semi-symmetrical wing section - it's a lot more manoeuvrable (that's code for its a lot less stable!) than an Apprentice - even with the later on "Advanced".

That extra weight means you have a lot more inertia to manage. As others have said this requires a far more sophisticated flying technique - you have think ahead more, this won't "turn on sixpence" its wing loading is too high, if the Apprentice stalls its a complete non-event, it won't be viscous Boomerang (well not by warbird standards!) but it will definitely be "an event"!

So, I'm with the others - good start with the Apprentice and it will pay big dividends in enabling you to take the next steps quicker and earlier. But at this stage a low winger, especially with IC in that is also new to you, might just be a step too far - too many new things to master at the same time.

BEB

PS I'll have a informal wager with you - 6 months with IC and you'll be back on electric wondering why you left all that convenience and reliability behind!! I've seen it so many times!

[Ian Mat]

I learnt to fly on a tamed wot 4 and my next model was an acrowot, with a ASP52 engine. I found the Acrowot to be extremely forgiving and apart from the slightly more slippery shape, has a very similar flight envelope to the Wot4.

That would be my recommendation!

[Geoff S]

Is there really any difference from high to low wing once you've mastered the basics?

I built my own 4 channel 40 sized trainer after failing miserably to fly a Precedent Electrafly I'd built with my existing 2 channel 27 Mhz radio I'd been using for model yacht racing. I used the trainer for a while with help from club members and then built a Precedent Fun Fly which I used to pass my 'A'. I don't remember it's being any harder to fly. I'm no ace pilot and I was well into my 50s, so not young either.

I'm also dubious about the learn on 3 channel rather than 4. There's no significant difference. In fact I think 4 channel is a lot easier with a control for each of yaw, roll and pitch.

From my own experience I'd recommend a Fun Fly though it's not strictly a low wing model, electric or glow. I also don't think there's much difference to flying electric or glow. There are differences, of course, and pros and cons to both but not to flying. An electric model isn't necessarily lighter than glow, either. My electric DB Tiggie (as in my new icon) weighs the same as a glow powered one.

Geoff

[TIM Shaw]

Hi Chris

There is a lot of good advice on here already. Personally, I credit the Foss Acrowot with really teaching me to fly (got my sixth kit in the garage, to start when it warms up a bit), and I think this is - still - the benchmark all sport models should be judged against.

But I agree that stepping straight up to one from an electric trainer might be a bit much, depends on you a bit though too - I know that peoples aptitude can vary greatly, and what is necessary for some folk may not be needed for others.

I love the Wot4 too, but I would go for the Classic rather than the Mk3 personally. Power it with a decent 46 or so engine, which will fly the AcroWot you know you are going to want next, rather than going for a minimum engine size - you can always throttle it back!

I don't agree that you will be running back to electrics either - I've recently gone back to IC having flown Slope and electric for years, and find it much more rewarding, although I would freely admit a warm battery pack is better for your fingers than a soaking in glow fuel at this tine of year....

I think the best advice is to talk to the club instructor you are going to rely on to help you move forward, he may very well have some fixed ideas of his own....

[IanN]

Posted by Jon Harper - Laser Engines on 08/11/2016 08:46:57:

I wouldnt recommend the super air. Its a great model but the undercarriage are mounted to the wings and if you land heavy you can do major damage to the wings. Once proficient with IC models it would be a good choice though.

I had two as my first low winger(s)- three if you count the one I built a box fus for and reused the wings and tail

Despite some serious abuse and a goodly no of take off and landing "learnings" - ok, incidents - I had not one jot of u/c related wing damage. One time I thumped my first one in so hard it bounced 6 feet up. The attempted recovery (lack of) wiped the nose off but the wings and u/c were unscathed from the seriously hard "landing". Second one I got a landing completely wrong and pretty much flew into the ground far too fast. The resultant cartwheel snapped the fus behind the wing but the wing and u/c were again unscathed. Did something similar with the third - the one with the o/d fus - and this time the cartwheel broke the wing: but not at the u/c mount points. In fact I still have the wings - one complete and perfectly usable, plus two halves

That said, those Super Airs were both bought when the rrp was £55, and I got both for £50 each. So, probably 14 or 15 years ago. The construction may well of course have developed or changed since then. But if it hasn't, I reckon an awful lot of other things will break first before the u/c gives a problem

[Jon Laughton]

My first low wing model was an Acrowot and I found that a good step to make but not too challenging. However I would definitely recommend the low wing version of the Kyosho Calmato as a model that is very easy to fly in either ic or electric form. The SuperAir also gets a nod from me..

Edited By Jon Laughton on 10/11/2016 00:04:52

[David Davis]

I agree with previous commentators, the Acro Wot is a fine low winger with a very wide speed envelope.

Of the Black Horse "Air" range, the Speed Air has a tricycle undercarriage and the Travel Air has a fuselage mounted undercarriage which may be stronger than the wing-mounted undercarriage of the Travel Air.

The Kyosho Calmato Sport is a fine-flying low winger as is the Carl Goldberg Tiger. Both of these models are available in both 40 and 60 sized versions.