JR closing down?

[Geoff Jackson]

I agree with Andrew Ray. Its the first of Jan for God's sake. Lets be a bit optimistic please. I have never had so much gear in my life as now and at very reasonable prices. Back in the late 60s early 70s I struggled getting stuff and paying for it, often looking for S/H gear. I still have Futaba but with FrySky gear attached and I have an Aurura 9 witha lot of Hitec gear. I remeber getting excited when I got a Futaba Gold set second hand years ago - thought it was the dogs doodahs at the time !

Lets look forward. Lots of good stuff going to happen. Shove the doom and gloom.

[Gary Manuel]

Problem is, once you are 20 models into a particular brand, it becomes a major investment to switch.

I've just spent a lot of money on a JR PowerSafe receiver - probably the last new JR RD922 in the country. I like these because of their high current handling and battery redundancy. My tranny is a JR DSX9 Mk2 which is DSM/DSM2 only (not DSMX) and receivers are no longer made. I did question whether it was the right move to hold on to this obsolete technology.

I was sooooooo close to switching to Taranis, which I have played with and love. Maybe next time?

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by john stones 1 on 01/01/2017 19:24:45:

Not all BEB, i have JR coz i already had it, and Frsky because i believe in their equipment, and the price is right, can't knock either for reliability. Chinese car anyone

John

Ah but you have always been an individual John!!

Actually the "some" I refered to in my last line above was the manufacturers - not the users like us. We users are on the ball - it is some of the companies that are failing to keep up!

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 01/01/2017 20:03:21

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Ah my mistake BEB

Where's this "doom n gloom" all i can see is folk happy with the gear they have n the new stuff on market ?

Plus my missus will be able to pass my JR gear onto my grand kids, thank you Donald

Who'll be driving cheap Chinese cars or hover quads

John

[Tony Cook]

Happy New Year! Don't worry be happy! All I have is JR equipment, an old XP642 that I bought in the late nineties (still going strong) then when speky 2.4 came out I bought the one of the last XP2720's..of course all 35meg, (again still going strong) then for my 50th my family bought me an XG8 2.4 - love it. They are used week in week out and get looked after, so should not fail..(hope that's not a kiss of death). I guess when they come to the end of their life I will buy the best I can afford at that time. So, whatever eqmt you have, keep it, use it, enjoy it. You cant fly 20 models at the same time!! Did anyone get a flight today or did the rain stop play?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

No flying, it's been grim up north and we cancelled our New Years Day fly in coz all our lads are drunks

Days sorted for tomorrow instead n forecast's good

John

[..]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 01/01/2017 19:12:23:

Another company way behind the curve on development. The likes of FrSsky and Spektrum will eat these people alive. Eventually their customers realise, one-by-one, that they can buy a much higher spec at a price that is at least comparable and often much lower.

Futaba next? No reason why not as far as I can see - it seems to be only customer loyalty keeping them afloat as far as I can see - it certainly isn't value for money based on the spec of their product. And their reliability is not proving to be higher than their lower cost competition.

We live in changing times - some seem to be struggling with that!

BEB

Lol give over man , the new FR Sky rubbish its literally falling apart in people's hands. Futaba won't be going anywhere, ok you used it in the past but now can't afford it as your retired, fair enough but stop beating it up BeB it's becoming a real bore!

JR has been a minority brand for a long time , shame it's going as it seemed to handle the spread technology far better than the Horizon Hobby brand.

Brown & out ........

[Gary Manuel]

Posted by john stones 1 on 01/01/2017 21:10:20:

No flying, it's been grim up north and we cancelled our New Years Day fly in coz all our lads are drunks

Days sorted for tomorrow instead n forecast's good

John

I'm still drunk.... Just had a nice bottle of Barolo with my New Year's dinner. Shame there's only me drinks the stuff

I'll be there nice and early tomorrow though

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by Justin K. on 01/01/2017 21:22:15:

 

 

 

 

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 01/01/2017 19:12:23:

Another company way behind the curve on development. The likes of FrSsky and Spektrum will eat these people alive. Eventually their customers realise, one-by-one, that they can buy a much higher spec at a price that is at least comparable and often much lower.

Futaba next? No reason why not as far as I can see - it seems to be only customer loyalty keeping them afloat as far as I can see - it certainly isn't value for money based on the spec of their product. And their reliability is not proving to be higher than their lower cost competition.

We live in changing times - some seem to be struggling with that!

BEB

 

Lol give over man , the new FR Sky rubbish its literally falling apart in people's hands. Futaba won't be going anywhere, ok you used it in the past but now can't afford it as your retired, fair enough but stop beating it up BeB it's becoming a real bore!

JR has been a minority brand for a long time , shame it's going as it seemed to handle the spread technology far better than the Horizon Hobby brand.

Brown & out ........

 

Sorry mate but I think you are very wrong - yes there has been one issue reported by a few on Horus regarding a button - and it's like Futaba and Spektrum have never had any issues or recalls have they? Haha!

I have had a Trannis for two years - heavily used - no faults. Just like many others just listen to the good reports on here. You can't ignore it for ever! Unless of course the reality is you're just one more loyal Futaba user sleep walking to obselence! But I can't believe that of a smart guy like you Justin

Time will tell - "Futaba will never go" eh - well they probably said the same about JR!

BEB

PS And a final point Justin - there is no need to be personal - unless of cause that is the only argument you can muster. I went to Taranis two years before I retired. and just for your info - I probably gross more retired than most people do "in work"! You you might be bored - well OK go elsewhere then! Often people don't want to hear things that might be true. The possibe fate of Futaba is my opinion - and I project it as only that - and that I'm fully entitled to that on here - as its not a personal insult!

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 01/01/2017 21:54:15

[..]

BEB it's nothing about loyalty etc etc I like a good product & am lucky to be in a position to be able to buy one.

I have absolutely NO interest in "free" programming or whatever else it's known as inline with many I would imagine who just want to fly.

You recently stated on a thread that you couldn't understand why newcomers wouldn't go electric because of your so called convenience argument? Well maybe as a moderator you need to start looking at the bigger picture rather than pushing just what's good for you ???

Just Saying x

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[kevin b]

Time will tell - "Futaba will never go" eh - well they probably said the same about JR!

And Graupner, And Flair. Oh, and what happened to Airfix and Keilkraft ?

However, with the financial clout that Futaba have behind them it would be a very worrying time for the rest of the industry if they closed !

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by Justin K. on 01/01/2017 21:59:30:

BEB it's nothing about loyalty etc etc I like a good product & am lucky to be in a position to be able to buy one.

I have absolutely NO interest in "free" programming or whatever else it's known as inline with many I would imagine who just want to fly.

You recently stated on a thread that you couldn't understand why newcomers wouldn't go electric because of your so called convenience argument? Well maybe as a moderator you need to start looking at the bigger picture rather than pushing just what's good for you ???

Just Saying x

Justin, as a moderator I have a specific job. As a member of this forum though I am completely entitled to my opinion and to post them - as you are - as long as I do make it clear they are my opinions - which I think I always am careful to do. So I have two roles and I keep them separate.

If I were to use my position as moderator to stifle your views because I don't agree with them you would have cause for compliant - but say what you like Justin, I don't do that - if I disagree I take it on as a forum member fair and square - and never use my position as a moderator to support my argument.

The specific case you cite, are you seriously suggesting that as a moderator I can't even ask the question! Unbelievable!

You might like to know - if you have not seen it - that I wrote a detailed article in the Nov edition of the magazine comparing the case for IC versus Electric - an article I have received emails about from readers commenting on how fair and even handed the review was - maybe you should invest a few minutes reading it before levelling claims of bias and misusing my position against me?

BEB

[Gary Manuel]

What I want to know is - Who killed JR?

[Colin Leighfield]

I reckon it was the Poison Dwarf.

[Peter Jenkins]

Well, if it's true that JR are backing away from the R/C market I for one will be very sad but will continue to use my XG11. I started with Futaba and had just bought a FF9 when 2.4 GHz was launched in the UK by Spektrum. I waited for Futaba to offer upgrades/modules etc but nothing came so I went for the JR DSX9 /Spektrum technical solution. I had problems with Spektrum Rxs and lost 2 aircraft but never had problems with the JR DSM 9 Ch Rx.

The DSX9 Tx was a revelation to me. I found the Futaba programming to be quite complex whereas the JR programming was so much easier. True you couldn't allocate a function to any switch but that didn't cause me any problems. When the JR XG11 was announced I bought that and moved over completely to XG stuff. This has never (to date!) given me any cause for concern as regards problems with the radio. I found a guru on RCU who could provide all the guidance I needed for programming the less common functions - something all RC manufacturers are very bad at doing.

Having read the JR announcement it can be interpreted as we are in trouble or one could take it at face value. However, if JR does cease support for the RC user base I will continue to use a great bit of kit until I get to the other end of the bath tub curve and wear out creeps in. What to buy then? Jeti looks the next best option.

Keep going JR - some of us like your products and will keep on using them till they start to wear out.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Nah, mods have opinions and contribute a large amount on various threads, bit harsh to be throwing the mod bit into pot. take Spekky threads for instance and amount of contribution Pete makes and opinions he offers, and other lads n lasses on their particular fields of expertise.

Then you've kit producers and engine suppliers, can they not voice opinions ? BEB and others love their Frsky stuff, so what...Laser lovers have their own Society, not a member myself, but i run the occasional Sports column.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by Peter Jenkins on 01/01/2017 23:17:28:

Well, if it's true that JR are backing away from the R/C market I for one will be very sad but will continue to use my XG11. I started with Futaba and had just bought a FF9 when 2.4 GHz was launched in the UK by Spektrum. I waited for Futaba to offer upgrades/modules etc but nothing came so I went for the JR DSX9 /Spektrum technical solution. I had problems with Spektrum Rxs and lost 2 aircraft but never had problems with the JR DSM 9 Ch Rx.

The DSX9 Tx was a revelation to me. I found the Futaba programming to be quite complex whereas the JR programming was so much easier. True you couldn't allocate a function to any switch but that didn't cause me any problems. When the JR XG11 was announced I bought that and moved over completely to XG stuff. This has never (to date!) given me any cause for concern as regards problems with the radio. I found a guru on RCU who could provide all the guidance I needed for programming the less common functions - something all RC manufacturers are very bad at doing.

Having read the JR announcement it can be interpreted as we are in trouble or one could take it at face value. However, if JR does cease support for the RC user base I will continue to use a great bit of kit until I get to the other end of the bath tub curve and wear out creeps in. What to buy then? Jeti looks the next best option.

Keep going JR - some of us like your products and will keep on using them till they start to wear out.

I agree Peter - it would be a very sad day if they went - we can't afford to lose any of them. But we do need them to "keep up"! And they need to do so in order to maintain market share and entice new users.

I want to see diversity of supply down at the field, not the whole show dominated by a tiny number of manufacturers - because if they a small number of manufacturers are allowed to dominate then they too in turn will become lazy and stop innovating. We need competition to keep them on their toes!

So, let's hope JR (and some others) can find a way forward and back into a strong postion with exciting and innovative new products at a competative price. It gives me no pleasure at all to see formerly leading and respected companies decline.

BEB

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[David Ovenden]

Well I thought about starting a thread with this same title a week or so back in response to the "rumours" and comment on other forums. In the end I didn't want to be the one who started the whole thing off. However, now the topic is up and running I will add my thoughts.

It would appear that JR, like many other model companies, are feeling the chill wind of competition and changing market trends. I have been a loyal JR user since 1984 and still have my faithful PCM10X set from 2000 in regular use with a DMSS tx module.

Undoubtable there have been key decisions in the past that contribute to where JR are now. They have always produced reliable, high quality (and usually innovative) equipment and had a loyal but not market leading following. As others have commented, their decision to link up with Horizon Hobbies to use Spektrum DSM2 was one of the key factors. This did have the advantage of keeping them in the game and allowed them to get into the 2.4G market relatively quickly. The downside was that they always (seemed?) the very junior partner in the arrangement and Spektrum quickly developed their own sets to eat away at JR market share.

Once the decision was made to "separate" JR launched their DMSS protocol. This is a good fast system with telemetry and has been generally well received in technical circles as being an elegant solution to using the 2.4G band for models and meeting new regulations. However, it meant asking their customers to change transmitters and all their new receivers to the new protocol. This was not popular, but once JR stepped away from DSM2/X it was, one supposes, inevitable.

Linked to this was JR's marketing decision to create a new "look or face" for its new XG transmitters. Previously their 2702, 9X, 10X, 12X etc were a fairly "traditional" style and perhaps their marketing felt they needed to create a new Brand Image. As a result the XG series was developed around the Gundam-style "robot face" look. This was a "Marmite" strategy. You love it or you hate it! Given that we know many RC modellers are now not as young as they once were , this was a devisive move. Some loved the style, others didn't - me included. It didn't stop the sets working brilliantly, but how many were put off by the looks?

There is also the change away from buying radios from the LMS where potential customers could see and handle a radio, to on-line shopping. In addition we have seen a proliferation of low-cost new far-eastern brands as well as open-software radio like Taranis giving modellers new options and possibilities.

So in these changing times is it the end for JR, or is there a future for them? I have no inside knowledge. Their statement says they have closed their Japanese factory and hobby production is being transferred to a Malaysian factory. JR says

“Sanei has proven for many years to produce high quality JR products at reasonable cost, and since current production was far from 100%, it makes good business sense for JR to move all Propo production to Sanei.”

Given that most JR products have been produced there for some time, there may be no reason that they can’t continue to do so. Equally, there is the example of Graupner the giant German model company that folded a while back. It was bought out by the company that made their R/C equipment. (It’s also a bizzare thought that JR used to manufacture the radio sets for Graupner up until a few years ago) Perhaps Sanei will buy out JR? Or JR may do just exactly as they have stated and restart supplying from the new location.

So maybe it’s not all doom and gloom and JR will have a future, albeit different from the past. One thing’s for sure, we are living through “interesting” times. In the meantime, as others have said, there may be some tempting JR bargains out there to snap up in 2017. As for me, I will carry on with the reliable JR sets I already own.

Here's wishing some great flying in this year, whatever brand of radio you use.

Edited By David Ovenden on 02/01/2017 09:02:25

Edited By David Ovenden on 02/01/2017 09:04:01

[Piers Bowlan]

Some very good points there David not least the bizarre marketing idea to make the TX look like a face, most off putting, for me at least. But I did go for it as I had heard good things about the super reliable DMSS protocol which clinched it for me. I think Speky were going through a bad patch with DX8 recalls at the time. I did baulk at the high cost of JR but fortunately I was able to pick one up in the Far East, whilst on my travels at a more reasonable price. I think possibly their high price has been instrumental in their decline. I don't know if there is any truth in this but I heard that they had their own chipset made for their DMSS which, if true, would have made the development costs eye wateringly expensive. Most radios seem to be made in China these days which is a bit sad as you tend to get what you pay for in terms of reliability, even if they have lots of extra functions (that I will never use).

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 02/01/2017 11:01:30

[Peter Jenkins]

BEB - re the need to keep up, as in most of today's life like motor cars, this has more to do with fashion than technology. For example, how many people actually use more than the basic functions on their high end Tx? Some folks have never even used dual rates or expo let alone the more sophisticated mixes that are available. Indeed, how many people actually read their car handbooks and know what the full range of functions is available to them. Another example, a friend has the same car as I have and yet has little knowledge of any of the functions past those that are normally available in all cars. It took me some weeks to get familiar with what was available reading the handbook while sitting in the car (sad?) but at least I am aware of what's available and use the functions that I feel are useful to me (I know that reading the manual is not something the male of the species does but some of us do!)

This has more to do with the number of, shall we say, relatively simple models being flown today. Sure the jet, advanced gliding and aerobatic community probably are the main users of all the sophisticated capabilities in today's computer Txs but what percentage of the user base do they represent.

For my own part, having access to stick position switching and being able to activate "crow" braking on an aerobatic biplane with four ailerons were only achievable by seeking help on the RCU forum where there is a real guru on JR programming. Why JR don't use him to write up "how to", and more importantly when or why to, sections in their Tx manuals remains a mystery. Perhaps if JR and Futaba were to invest more into that aspect of their product they might do better. Indeed, when it comes to telemetry, I resorted to a third party product that can me set up for JR/Futaba etc kit to provide a wide range of parameters that would have cost me 5 times as much had I used JR sensors. So, there are clearly areas that JR and others could look at to improve the take up of the immense capability contained within their equipment.

The Taranis thread that you started has no doubt helped a great many to take the leap into Taranis. Had there been a similar level of help for JR it might be that their XG series would have fared better. While JR do provide on-line updating of their Tx, all of which I have taken advantage, they have not moved as fast as I would like since there are functions that would make practical sense were they to be implemented via one of these software updates. That perhaps is where JR has suffered and will continue to suffer until such time as they decide focus their limited development resources back onto the RC market.

However, there is nothing wrong with their kit for the vast majority of RC users since, as I have found in practice, very few modellers use any more than 5% of the Tx capability - a bit like using Word processors where even less of the products' capabilities are used or even known about by the average user.

I'm not sure that David's point about the look of the new Tx has been a turn off to buyers - it certainly traps a lot less dirt when in use and I am more interested in how it feels on the sticks - since I use a Tx tray how the Tx feels in my hands is not an issue but stick feel certainly is. But then, perhaps I'm the odd one out .

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

9X 35 mhz user myself and i've never used a box that feels better, it's balanced, sticks are good and it sits in my hands as though it's tailor made, Chinese reliability ? my set now has a Frsky module in, there is no reliability issue, as stated cost of RX's from some of the big boys is a joke. You get what you pay for ? yes you do, an RX that works and is reliable...who says so ? the users and the market place do.

John

[Cuban8]

Although I've never been a JR user, I've read the thread with interest. What has got me thinking is how few of my flying colleagues have invested in new trannies recently. Out of say, thirty flyers that I see regularly, I'm sure that only one has invested in a brand new replacement TX (DX9) within the last year. Last time I purchased a new tranny was in 2012, (when I came away from Futaba 35Mhz) and that was a DX7 that I use for all my models - electric, IC and helis. It still has seven model memories free, has all the mixing that I need, is reliable and generally does the job.

I suppose that the change from 27MHz to 35MHz, upgrading to computerised trannies, and the change to 2.4 GHz all generated a surge in radio sales - but what is there to encourage us to upgrade now, given that our existing modestly priced radios are well packed with more than enough facilities to satisfy the majority of sport flyers? We tend to change our phones quite often (upgrade fever?) but that doesn't appear to be happening with TX sales to anywhere near the same scale.

The hobby market for radio is probably shrinking, and I wonder if all the mainstream manufacturers will survive the changes. Perhaps JR just see themselves as running a losing race and are getting out while they can?

The most popular radios in use at the clubs that I belong to are Futaba and Spektrum, probably 50/50 with a very small number of Hitecs, Taranis and Multiplex accounting for the rest. Anyone fancy a flutter as to how the distribution will look in January 2027?

Edited By Cuban8 on 02/01/2017 11:54:56