Why learn aerobatics? How learn aerobatics?

[Jonathan M]

Neither old nor young, now in my early-50s, I started learning with an electric Riot three years ago and got my A about 18 months ago. I then tried a foam warbird - an eFlite Hurricane bought off a club-member - which was easy enough for me to fling around the sky and not rip off the retracts on landing, but not with any scale authenticity or real enjoyment. It was also unsuitable for our medium-rough patch, and the combination of foam, electric and ARTF (i.e. pretend) scale did nothing for me, so I sold it on.

So last autumn I bought an ARTF Acro Wot from my LMS and an ASP 70 FS from Just Engines. With much help from this forum, I learnt the essentials of getting it all together (IC, fuel, Ni-Mh batts, essential field kit) and now have a dozen or so successful winter flights under my belt.

What a lovely, real model, which can properly cope with our rough site and all sorts of wind conditions, and which I'm really enjoying.

But flying around just for the sake of it and/or not very well annoys me, and my thoughts are turning to aerobatics - classic stuff, nothing hooligan or too competitive. However I'm not quite the fit young thing I once was with 20:20 vision and quick-to-learn hand-eye skills. Muscle-memory takes longer to acquire, reactions are slower, the reptilian part of the brain doesn't contain the vast database of responses and instincts that it does for the various sports and dangerous activities I did in my yoof.

So I looked up the B Certificate, and this month's BMFA newsletter led me to the GBR/CAA and their entry-level Clubman Schedule (which, as I understand it, no longer requires a B). I then read the various articles on this site about trimming a plane for aerobatics, about the sequence of stick-commands for rolls, hesitation rolls, stall-turns, spins, etc.

I've already played a bit with inverted flying, with elevator-assisted rolls, and with roughly shoving the Acro-Wot around the sky (this is how I've gotten to practice dead-stick landings!), but I now need to get a little more organised... which seems to need most of the following:

• A decent simulator on a decent-sized screen so I can begin to learn in slow-motion at first. (The basic-priced Ikarus I have isn't good for this sort of flying-training, and my MacBook laptop is rather too small. The Pheonix sim looks much better, but rather than waste money on PC emulation software to run it on Mac, I might acquire a cheap PC with a decent-size screen for the job?)
• A thorough fine-tuning of balance and trims on the Acro-Wot.
• The intention of practicing specific tasks - rather than casual circuits with a few fun bits - whenever I go out flying, with maybe a kind volunteer by my side to call out manoeuvres and criticise me.
• Eventually some proper coaching - but we're a small club, so I might have to look elsewhere for this.

Any thoughts?

Jon

 

Edited By Jonathan M on 13/02/2017 19:13:02

[Martin Dance 1]

It has been argued that aerobatics is the ultimate test of flying skill Here we go 'oh no its not'. I agree with your basic plan, it's certainly achievable. Definately go to each flying session with a specific plan, 'today I will practise three consecutive loops' etc.

I would strongly recommend Neil Williams book 'Aerobatics' long out of print and Neil sadly deceased. It's about aerobatics in full size aircraft but many of the hints and tips apply to our models. Apart from that it's an interesting read Tr your library, second hand bookshop Amazon etc.

[Jon Laughton]

Hi Jon

I am in my late fifties and your self description is eerily like mine would have been about 7 or 8 years ago. My first low wing model was also a much loved Acrowot That I built from scratch and flew / crashed until I had complete confidence in it & myself. I took lessons at the now defunct ATS to get my A using my first high wing trainer then more lessons, mostly with Colin Chapman of East Midlands Air training (advertises in RCME) to get my B. This concerted tuition really stopped me from just poorly given around and learn the finer points / tips of accurate / more precise aerobatics.

The key thing here is that external / experienced help can really jolt you out the comfort zone & challenge you to make progress. If you don't have club mates that can help you do that then buying tuition is an option but not too cheap! You have also recognised the need for a suitably set up model and if possible I would recommend (if affordable) you get hold of some other low wing aerobatic models so you can learn how to compensate for different flying characteristics. If you want some recommendations you'll find plenty on this forum but not all see things in the same way. If you want my thoughts pm me... I would also recommend getting hold of the books published by RC flight school in the USA as these are great self help books.

Finally I'd be happy to help you personally but I have no idea where you live/fly - so pm me for a chat on that too?

Cheers and good luck

Jon

[Jonathan M]

@ Martin - thanks for that encouragement and the heads-up on Neil Williams' book, which I've ordered.

@ Jon - thanks for your response too! I was thinking of getting a second model, in case the Acrowot found itself temporarily out of action for any reason, and even thought of getting an electric Wot4 balsa, but will probably stick with IC for now. Will PM.

Jon

PS That RC Flight School site looks very useful - a good instructional book is worth a thousand wasted hours!

Edited By Jonathan M on 13/02/2017 20:14:25

[Colin Carpenter]

Perhaps get a Sebart Angel , 30 or 50 size and practice a schedule that suits you ! Superb machine that flatters your efforts ! I just fly a pattern I enjoy with mine as and when . Done all the competition I needed multi and fast electric racing years back so just fly for fun now . Colin 😂

[Peter Miller]

I believe that everyone should learn basic aerobatics as a minimum and certainly get to the stage where one can throw a model around and just have fun.

There are two reasons for this, IT makes flying a lot more fun. I have some models that only fy straight and level when inverted. but all that is just fun and makes flying interesting

The more important reason is that you learn to recognice what the model is doing and how to recover from unusual attitudes. Trust me, If you get into an unsual attitude a bit too low it can save your model if you instintively recognise what the model is doing and can almost automatically correct it.

[Martin McIntosh]

Like you Colin, I did all that many years ago but still like to fly in the old 70`s style which to me looks much more impressive than the almost unrecogniseable things that they do these days. No wonder it attracts few spectators now.

I practiced the figures one at a time until I was sure that I could put a schedule together without embarassing myself. Encouraged by a guy who later became my guru I started to enter competitions which improved my flying no end. Some get bored with just flying around and others do not I expect.

My early models were far from perfect for the task in hand but I found that it did not matter too much if you persevere with one.

[chris Bond - Bondaero]

The GBRCAA are very keen to attract new members in the Clubman class and so this year there is no requirement to have your B as you point out. All of the aerobatic competitions are open to spectators and that is a good place to start.

Also this year there will be NPOD's New Pilots Open Days for helping with aerobatics. Additionally there will Clubman competitions in East Anglia this year.

The Acrowot is a great aeroplane but if you choose a pure F3a aeroplane for your next purchase you will notice and benefit from the added purity.

Please PM or contact us at www.bondaero if you have any f3a aerobatics questions or come and chat at the LMA Haydock show , It will be our first of the year.

[Cuban8]

I'm certainly no expert aerobatic flyer, but I have been known to do reasonably well in club comps and on occasion, club mates have been kind enough to complement me on my flying.

I've always liked trying to emulate full size aerobatics - no so much the violent and churning manoeuvres that are performed so well by modern over-powered composite aeroplanes, but those that were expected to be seen in the full-size competition world of forty or fifty years ago.

My advice to anyone thinking of exploring aerobatics would be to 'keep it simple' at least in the first stages, and perfect the basic shapes to the best of your ability before moving on. Even a straightforward loop will be a challenge to get somewhere near correct when one considers correct entry point, speed and power setting, maintaining a round shape, positioning, exit point and allowing for wind drift. Get that one pattern right and you'll be ahead of 90% of club flyers who are perfectly happy with a 'potato loop'.

Setting realistic goals is important so don't expect to be Hanno Prettner after a single season, make every flight with your aerobatic 'plane count - never just drift around aimlessly between manoeuvres but fly straight and level in proper circuits and make decent turns without losing height.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I would fly on a line myself, manoeuvre on center and one each end to turnaround, teaches you discipline and positioning, which is a big part of aerobatics, don't have a favoured direction either, do all from both directions wind permitting.

John

[TIM Shaw]

Absolutely agree with all of this, C8s description of himself fits me pretty well too....

My first low winger (circa 1987) was also an Acrowot and I still love the way they fly - I have a Foamie e version at present and my sixth traditional kit in the build list in the garage.

Having said that, they are great sports models but not as good at pure aerobatics - the tail moment is rather short and the tailplane is mounted a litle high which causes it to pull significantly towards the underside in knife edge. It also means they will spin rather better inverted than they do right side up if you want to have fun though!

My Guru back then was into competition aerobatics and never liked how the Acrowot flew, I have a fairly vivid memory of the time he handed me his TX and said - "here, have a feel what a real model should fly like"

This was a Prettner Magic with retracts and a piped YS 61 in it, and was something of an eye-opener....

I acquired a Curare shortly afterwards, then a Challenger, Suprafly 45, Calypso among others over the years.

Not a great believer in simulators, TBH, but that might just be me, I think you would be far better getting hold of an older pattern type plane and doing it for real, but I agree they do tend to be a bit quick.

Perhaps take a look at Mick Reeves Gangster 63 light? not strictly a pattern model but still pretty capable, and built light it doesn't need too much power or to fly too fast.. Personally, i have developed a fascination with 40 sized, 2 stroke powered version of the classics, done a mini Mach 1 and an 80% Challenger so far, plotting a KwikFly 4-40 as we speak, but they do cover a lot of sky and get very small very quickly - I'm also late fifties and not as mentally agile or as sharp sighted as I used to be either.

But the flying advice is sound too - give yourself a target for each flight and perfect the elements. Not all on here would agree with the next bit but I found it very useful to fly an early version of the Clubman Turnaround schedule - really focuses the mind on positioning, tracking and height. I used to fly it immediately after take off every flight, practice the bits I felt were awful, then relax for the rest of the flight as it can get rather stressful if you get too intense - its still meant to be fun!

 

Edited By TIM Shaw on 14/02/2017 11:45:14

[John Muir]

Jon, there's a thread on this forum somewhere entitled 'Ever wanted to get into or improve your aerobatics?' started by Peter Jenkins. Find that and read it right through and you'll know all you need to know, especially about trimming your plane and getting the CoG in the correct place. Setting the plane up properly is the single most important thing when it comes to flying aerobatics, followed by practice. Just do the same thing over and over until it looks right, then do it twice without a pause in between, then three times and so on. Basics first, the roll, the loop and the stall (spin, stall turn, flick roll all need the plane to stall cleanly, which it won't do if the CoG is too far forward) then once you can do these without thinking about it, string them all together. Very satisfying once you start to get it right.

You'll know you're getting it right when someone comes over when you land and says 'that plane of your's really flies well' or 'what have you got in that Acrowot, mine doesn't do that' .

Edited By John Muir on 14/02/2017 11:53:33

[Jonathan M]

Most useful replies, many thanks.

I've been reading the 'Ever wanted to get into or improve your aerobatics?' thread... very long, takes patience, but the salient bits very informative indeed. That American publication also looks useful - step by step stuff - but is hugely expensive to get posted here. Maybe I can source a used copy?

I'm sure the Acrowot is far from the ideal modern F3A airframe, but, properly balanced and trimmed, should serve me fine as I gradually gain understanding and feel through practice. A second model...

I can instinctively see what makes contemporary pattern/3-D designs so well evolved for their tasks, but I find them really unattractive. (When I used to ride large motorbikes, I always preferred older machines, ones that looked liked motorbikes rather than insects, even if they took a little more work.)

I'm keen on building and quite like the look of the Gangster 63 Lite kit from Mick Reeves, with an OS 35AX - would a 46AX be over-powered or over-fast?

Jon

[TIM Shaw]

I'm sure the 45 AX would be adequate, I wouldn't go for a 35 in something that size myself.

Not least because I am reminded the other thing that tends to differentiate the better pilots (and is rarely mentioned) is the proper, proportional use of the throttle.......

[OZ e flyer]

I'm probably only suggesting what you already have done but, I've found this site to be interesting and simple to read and understand.

http://rc-airplane-world

TP

[Jonathan M]

Ok, one step at a time.

Weather tomorrow looks both clear and pretty calm, so I'm going to take the Acrowot up to the patch for a series of trim tests, following the flight-based methods outlined by Andy Ellison in his In Trim? article (CG, lateral-balance, thrust-lines, dihedral balance, mixes, etc).

Once I've done as much of this as possible (cowling off, stick-on weights if needed, and a collection of washers for any thrust-line changes in my field-box), I'd like to practice basic but disciplined flight-line flying.

Studying and practicing manoeuvres - and choosing a second model - will come later.

[Jon Laughton]

Sounds like a plan - hope all goes well....good luck!👍😊