Mick Reeves Gangster 63 Lite

[Peter Jenkins]

Mark

On my Gangster 75, I've used 2 aileron servos with the ailerons sunk into the wing as in the photo below. As you can see, the wing is foam with veneered covering. I then made a ply plate to fit the hole, glued in ply triangular corner pieces in the box to allow the servo plate to be held in with servo screws. The servo was mounted on hardwood mounts allowing the servo arm to extend vertically through the servo plate.

[Mark Jones 10]

Thanks for your input but I’m talking about my Gangster 63 Lite with built up wings

[Peter Jenkins]

Mark, you asked for advice on which orientation to place your aileron servos. This shows one way of orientating them. For a built up wing all you need to do is to make a ply cover that sits between the ribs and then glue in the 4 corner supports to which to secure the ply cover. Same technique as I used except I had to cut out the veneer and dig out the foam to allow space for the servo. You may also need to reinforce the supporting ribs by gluing in a couple of 1/8 balsa spars to strengthen the structure that will carry the servos weight. Remember that you can cause the aircraft to generate as much as 20 g in a sharp pull out that increases the servo weight by 20, so a standard 50 g servo rises to 1 kg during the pull out so the structure needs to support that weight.

[Mark Jones 10]

Ok thanks. The aileron servos on mine are meant to be side mounted in the rib. I don’t like this arrangement so I may put some bearers in with some strengthening and fit in the usual way

[Andy Stephenson]

Mark,

This is how I mounted my aileron servos...

Bearers fixed to adjacent ribs give just enough space to mount a standard servo sideways up against the spar and with a piece of 1/4 square on the other side to make a landing area for the covering. QED.

A.

[Kim Taylor]

I did mine similarly to Andy, but with the servos mounted longitudinally on bearers fitted between the ribs.

I originally had a pair of mini servos mounted on their side as per the 'structions, but when one failed it was a royal pita to get it out without destroying the wing covering, so took the opportunity to change.

Kim

[Jonathan M]

I'm on a break from building mine at the moment (err.. been busy planking a full-sized boat!) but my wings will be next to be made when I get back to it, so this info on aileron servos is really useful.

As a general rule, I much prefer solutions which are flexible and allow for future maintenance etc!

[Mark Jones 10]

All useful information and thank you

I’m going to beef up the two spars a little and fit hardwood bearers to fit the servos inline with the spars. I trail fitted a servo as it’s intended and didn’t like how it was.
I’m also not using tricycle undercarriage as I’m getting carbon fibre swept back mains with the wheels being inline almost with the leading edge, and a tail wheel

I’m putting one full size servo for elevator in the rear end and solid 1/4 tail surfaces. Rudder servo will be in the rear of the wing compartment with a snake fitted.
now I’m wondering what or how to join the elevator halves, what size piano wire ?
plenty left to do. Oh also I’m glass clothing the wing join for peace of mind

[Jonathan M]

Wings now almost complete, just the joining and final bits to do.  Photos below show the various modifications I've done to create a more proper and robust structure.

 

I'm not going to say what I think of Mick Reeves from my personal experience of building this model so far, except that I really, really wish I'd never bought the ill-though-through kit in the first place!  Those who've already built one will know what I'm referring to (as will the no doubt great many who've abandoned their's part-way through!), but anyone experienced who reads this thread and others on the Gangster 63 Lite will soon spot the problems - which go beyond rubbish instructions, parts which aren't referred to anywhere, flimsy plastic cowling, supplied U/C wire with the axles cut too short, etc, etc.  I really wish I'd instead knuckled down and built something else instead, either from a reliable professional designer and manufacturer like Chris Foss or another reputable company, or from a well-regarded plan with proper detail - which I believe would have taken me half the time! The only reason I've persevered has been because once I'd started I decided to continue as a learning exercise - but it has been a really frustrating and negative one!   I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THIS KIT TO ANYONE, BUT ESPECIALLY NOT RELATIVE BEGINNERS.

 

The improvements that I've done to the wings most recently and the fuselage previously will not I believe add any significant weight to the finished airframe, but should result in a much more resilient and enduring model etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GrumpyGnome]

That's a bit harsh Jonathan ..... have you fed the comments back to Mr Reeves ?

 

GG

[Jonathan M]

To be fair GG I did telephone Mr Reeves with some questions quite a while ago, just after I'd first started the kit.  He simply wasn't interested, was impatient to get me off the phone, "its all in the instructions" etc.  It isn't, and it shouldn't take a customer's money and (especially) time to discover this.

 

I don't in general like to be negative (and look forward to eventually having a great flying model!) but it has taken a lot of extra thought and effort to deal with the kit's many shortcomings - which is harder if one doesn't have the experience of a dozen RC builds already under one's belt.

 

I think he took a good basic idea (possibly, as someone suggested earlier in the thread, intended as concept for ARTF manufacture?) but failed to resolve it fully before packaging it into a kit.  I've built many FF scale models, from both traditional and modern kits and from plans:  a plan gives one complete control over the making, a well-resolved CAD-designed/laser-cut kit is a delight, while the minor shortfalls of an old-school kit (e.g. printed ribs etc) can be easily overcome.  However a kit like this (without any plan and barely inadequate instructions, some parts that don't fit and some which are pure orphans, extras that are patently unfit for purpose, e.g. flimsy plastic cowling, and ultimately several structural and constructional inadequacies) leaves the customer to fall - frustratingly - between several stools.

 

Sorry if this does come across as a bit harsh, but this is my actual experience and I've tried to be objective about it.

[Andy Stephenson]

I wouldn't let this put me off building a kit like this from your report but I also wouldn't expect it to command a premium price. I have been building from kits and plans for some considerable time and I know I have never built one exactly to the original instructions, I always change some things I don't like and this includes some of the best quality kits and ARTFs.

 

[GrumpyGnome]

Disappointing response from Mr Reeves there !

GG

[Jonathan M]

Fair point Andy, I imagine that having lots of prior experience like yours would make things less fraught.

 

Anyway, just to say that - having got all that off my chest - I'm moving forward, have resolved to just enjoy the challenge of the final few laps and moan no more about it!

 

Joined the wings today, then took the opportunity to weight everything I've built, added the weight of the engine, RC gear, batt, U/C, covering, other gubbins, etc, then added an extra 10% to the total to give an estimated flying weight in the order of 5.5lbs max.  This equates to a wing-loading of 17.5oz/sq ft (7.8 Cubic Wing Loading) which is still pretty 'light' for the size of model, while the Irvine 46 should produce up to maybe 160W/lb.  So the various 'improvements' don't look like they've really added any serious weight penalty at all.

[Andy Stephenson]

As I wrote earlier, my G63 Lite came out to 5lb 5Oz with all my mods and with an Irvine 53 it will do unlimited verticals on just over 1/2 throttle. Jonathan, your combination should be more than adequate.

 

[Nigel R]

13 hours ago, Jonathan M said:

So the various 'improvements' don't look like they've really added any serious weight penalty at all.

 

?

[Andy Stephenson]

According to the Mick Reeves website the G63Lite should come out to 1800g=just under 4Lb. Even with a light engine such as a .20 (yes he does suggest going this low on engine size) this is a bit optimistic. Some of the framework is just a bit too flimsy for my liking but even built as specified I don't think this target weight is attainable.

[Mark Jones 10]

On 21/03/2021 at 21:55, Jonathan M said:

Wings now almost complete, just the joining and final bits to do.  Photos below show the various modifications I've done to create a more proper and robust structure.

 

I'm not going to say what I think of Mick Reeves from my personal experience of building this model so far, except that I really, really wish I'd never bought the ill-though-through kit in the first place!  Those who've already built one will know what I'm referring to (as will the no doubt great many who've abandoned their's part-way through!), but anyone experienced who reads this thread and others on the Gangster 63 Lite will soon spot the problems - which go beyond rubbish instructions, parts which aren't referred to anywhere, flimsy plastic cowling, supplied U/C wire with the axles cut too short, etc, etc.  I really wish I'd instead knuckled down and built something else instead, either from a reliable professional designer and manufacturer like Chris Foss or another reputable company, or from a well-regarded plan with proper detail - which I believe would have taken me half the time! The only reason I've persevered has been because once I'd started I decided to continue as a learning exercise - but it has been a really frustrating and negative one!   I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THIS KIT TO ANYONE, BUT ESPECIALLY NOT RELATIVE BEGINNERS.

 

The improvements that I've done to the wings most recently and the fuselage previously will not I believe add any significant weight to the finished airframe, but should result in a much more resilient and enduring model etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’ve nearly finished mine. Most of the things you changed are common things with a kit. I did mostly the same, but then I like modifying things and didn’t see it as an issue. I agree that the instructions are basic but to anyone with a few kits built they are fine. 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Nice job Mark. ?

[Mark Jones 10]

3 minutes ago, john stones 1 Moderator said:

Nice job Mark. ?

Thank you ?✈️

[Jonathan M]

Looks very good Mark... plus the 55AX up front!

 

Appreciate your note about mods being usual etc.  On the RC front I'd only previously built a Chris Foss kit, which probably raised my expectations a bit... but I've certainly learnt a lot with this one. ?  Keen as mustard now to get it finished and airborne!

[Mark Jones 10]

24 minutes ago, Jonathan M said:

Looks very good Mark... plus the 55AX up front!

 

Appreciate your note about mods being usual etc.  On the RC front I'd only previously built a Chris Foss kit, which probably raised my expectations a bit... but I've certainly learnt a lot with this one. ?  Keen as mustard now to get it finished and airborne!

Yes I’m excited about getting mine up flying. Won’t be long now just ailerons to fit 

[Jonathan M]

So a bit more progress...

 

I'll get my customary MR whinge out the way first...!  Having made and joined the wings and offered them up to the fuselage, I discovered two new-to-me howlers:  (i) the position of the rear mounting-bolt brackets on their ply former were 4mm too far back - solved by packing them out with lite-ply and adapting the plate underneath for the clearance holes to align - and (ii) the dowel-hole in the forward former was 3mm too low - solved by drilling out and adding a ply plate forward with a clean hole in the correct position.  

 

 

 

 

Added 1/32" ply squares to ensure less squishable support for the nylon wing bolts - and this photo shows the infill on the fuselage behind the TE to neatly cover the gap left by the necessary wing-seating 'corrections'.

 

 

Wing now seats on the fuselage much more nicely!  Also, I don't know how necessary this is, but I've ordered some woven cloth which I'll apply using Poly-C to the central wing area under the fuselage, less for wing join-strength which I think is good enough but more for ding-resistance.

 

 

Made the ailerons more or less by the instructions, but thinned their ribs down by 1/16" top and bottom so as to be able to add capping-strips as per the wings, which I expect should stiffen them up a bit and give the covering some more meat to stick to.

 

 

 

One thing that perplexes me is that the supplied nylon aileron horns are mounted in a way that sets them back a few mm from the actual hinge-line.  Surely this means that (assuming I don't 'fiddle' things by setting different up/down travels etc on the TX) the ailerons would have negative mechanical differential built in!?  Is this intentional on the Gangster or the 'house-style' of everything Mick Reeves has done?  (All models I've built or assembled so far - precision carbon DLGs, several balsa ARTFs, Chris Foss kits, etc - have the horn holes perfectly in line with the hinge-axis, with the normal assumption that if the model is going to need anything aside from equal travels then its going to be positive differential achieved by tweaking things on the TX.).  So, leave as is and tweak on the TX, cant them forwards, or make my own ply horns...?

 

 

 

Finally, the base colour scheme - 1970s Morris Marina - is now set:  brown fuselage with yellow wings, and go-fast stripes etc using black/white trim!

 

 

 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

If you've a servo in each wing half, and not using a Y lead, you can set the ailerons up that way, if not, alter to work how you want it.

[Mark Jones 10]

20 minutes ago, Jonathan M said:

So a bit more progress...

 

I'll get my customary MR whinge out the way first...!  Having made and joined the wings and offered them up to the fuselage, I discovered two new-to-me howlers:  (i) the position of the rear mounting-bolt brackets on their ply former were 4mm too far back - solved by packing them out with lite-ply and adapting the plate underneath for the clearance holes to align - and (ii) the dowel-hole in the forward former was 3mm too low - solved by drilling out and adding a ply plate forward with a clean hole in the correct position.  

 

 

 

 

Added 1/32" ply squares to ensure less squishable support for the nylon wing bolts - and this photo shows the infill on the fuselage behind the TE to neatly cover the gap left by the necessary wing-seating 'corrections'.

 

 

Wing now seats on the fuselage much more nicely!  Also, I don't know how necessary this is, but I've ordered some woven cloth which I'll apply using Poly-C to the central wing area under the fuselage, less for wing join-strength which I think is good enough but more for ding-resistance.

 

 

Made the ailerons more or less by the instructions, but thinned their ribs down by 1/16" top and bottom so as to be able to add capping-strips as per the wings, which I expect should stiffen them up a bit and give the covering some more meat to stick to.

 

 

 

One thing that perplexes me is that the supplied nylon aileron horns are mounted in a way that sets them back a few mm from the actual hinge-line.  Surely this means that (assuming I don't 'fiddle' things by setting different up/down travels etc on the TX) the ailerons would have negative mechanical differential built in!?  Is this intentional on the Gangster or the 'house-style' of everything Mick Reeves has done?  (All models I've built or assembled so far - precision carbon DLGs, several balsa ARTFs, Chris Foss kits, etc - have the horn holes perfectly in line with the hinge-axis, with the normal assumption that if the model is going to need anything aside from equal travels then its going to be positive differential achieved by tweaking things on the TX.).  So, leave as is and tweak on the TX, cant them forwards, or make my own ply horns...?

 

 

 

Finally, the base colour scheme - 1970s Morris Marina - is now set:  brown fuselage with yellow wings, and go-fast stripes etc using black/white trim!

 

 

 

I made a ply wedge to cant my aileron hinges forward so they are more inline with hinge line. I used glass cloth and finishing resin both sides of my wing join