Chris's Super 60 Build

[David Davis]

Are you sure that the Irvine is a 49? I'm aware that they produced a 40, a 46 and a 53. In fact I own all three.

Are you an experienced pilot? If the model is built light your OS will power your Super 60. If it's built heavy, take offs might be interesting.

The Irvine will certainly fly it but you may find yourself flying about at tick over or very little more and the note on the plan urges you not to overpower it.

If forced to choose between the two engines, I'd choose the OS.

[Stuart Z]

Chris,

Hi, it's coming along nicely. To answer some of your questions, from my view anyway, I think the Irvine might be too much - it's powerful, but also heavy, so yes it may fly OK but you may be flying a fast heavy plane. Not ideal to learn with. My first, the KK 3 channel flew OK on an OS 35 and the BB flew fine on an OS 40 ( by then 30 years old! ). I believe both are lighter and less powerful than your Irvine, but also lighter. The BB plan refers to a four stroke 40 which will probably have similar power to 25 two stroke as you intend to fit, and should give you a lighter more easily flyable model.

As I mentioned before, I don't now have the BB plan but the infill to the bottom of the centre section of the wing is to help strength as it is what sits on the top of the fuselage and helps protect the bottom surface of the centre section. Mine was infilled for this reason.

Keep up the good work!

S

[Nigel R]

Irvine 39?

For what its worth, I learnt on a junior 60 (the super 60 was based on it) which flew fine with just a 25 four stroke. A 25 2 stroke will be fine I think.

[Vince Keld 1]

Hello Chris re the wing tips I built a junior 60 three years ago from the kk plan on outerzone and has to cut and shut the wing tips what I did was laminate 3mm balsa to make 6mm as the 6mm I could get was way too soft I staggered the joins though and althogg it's not clear on the plan you have to butt join the trailing edge flat on the plan and raise the leading edge of the wing tip to be central with the leading edge of the wing this will mean that when pinned down it will be angled up towards the leading edge I know these are two different planes but the construction method is identical the super 60 has a Clark y section and the junior 60 is under cambered but on both when pinned to the plan the leading edge is raised probably wont make any difference but I built mine as you have and changed it later as when I was sanding it it just didn't look right you have to crack the lower spar at the last rib and lift it slightly to meet the lower surface of the wing tip and chamfwr and crack the upper spar to meet the top surface of the tip about 6mm in from the outside edge then round off by sanding can't show pics as I've lost my wing although its covered clear yellow and you could see what I mean

[Vince Keld 1]

Sorry for spelling grammer etc fat finger bad eyes and not so smart phone syndrome

[Chris B 3]

Ch

Hi all

Sorry, the engine is an Irvine 40. Not too sure where i got 49 from. I think il go with the OS max. I am not an experienced flyer and this will be my first fly with an engine. Out of interest what sort of fuel should I be looking at. I read somewhere that a glow fuel with a nitro content of 15%. Does that sound right?

Regarding the build I've hit a stumbling block. Well the reality is I've made a school boy error and used the 1/4 x 1/2 instead of the 3/8 by 3/16 for the TE on one of the wings. It was glued in solid and so I've had to cut it out.unfortunatley that puts the build on hold until I can get some more balsa which isn't easy in Northern Ireland and so I'll have to amazon some. I feel like a right plum!!

Cheers

Chris

[Stuart Z]

Chris

Hi

10% nitro will be fine for the 25FP. Good luck sorting the wood, we've all been there. You could try Balsa Cabin - I get all my wood from there.

S

[Chris B 3]

Thanks, Stuart. I was looking forward to getting stuck into the business end of the build so a little disappointing!!

[Fun Flyer]

Hi Chris, my current S60 is powered by a well used OS48 FS and flys sweetly on it. I've successfully used an OS 35 in the past.

Two suggestions if I may; Unless your landings are going to be perfect every time don't bolt the U/C to the underside. Strengthen the bottom with a piece of ply and fix the U/C with rubber bands and 8mm alu tube as I've done here. Otherwise you'll tear the bottom off the fuz every time. Don't ask how I know this!!

[Fun Flyer]

Second suggestion, sorry photos got lost in the last post. I mount the engine and tank on a piece of ply and screw that to the engine bearers. It means that they can both be removed as a unit and, for me anyway, it makes setting up much easier.

[David Davis]

Posted by Chris B 3 on 12/07/2017 21:01:44:

Hi all

Sorry, the engine is an Irvine 40. Not too sure where i got 49 from. I think il go with the OS max. I am not an experienced flyer and this will be my first fly with an engine. Out of interest what sort of fuel should I be looking at. I read somewhere that a glow fuel with a nitro content of 15%. Does that sound right? ....

Cheers

Chris

15% is excessive for a simple engine like your plain bearing OS, which will run on no nitro at all. 5% will improve the starting and tick over, any more is unnecessary and more expensive than need be.

[Mike Etheridge 1]

My Super 60 has an Enya SS40 installed which over- powers the model, It will take off on half throttle in a few yards and on full throttle like the Space Shuttle. I have just replaced the ED Racer in my Junior 60 with a very old but unused OS 20 but have yet to fly the plane which now has an elevator and a bigger fuel tank. Years ago the Junior 60 would take off at Epsom Downs with the ED Racer without an elevator but the take off run was really long. That said I could fly the Junior 60 up to a great height knowing that it would fly 'hands off' and would dead stick land safely every time. Both planes now share the same wing.

The Super 60 was first advertised with an ED 2.46 (15) Racer fitted and a maximum of 3.5 cc engine (25)

[Piers Bowlan]

Posted by Mike Etheridge 1 on 13/07/2017 09:53:42:

The Super 60 was first advertised with an ED 2.46 (15) Racer fitted and a maximum of 3.5 cc engine (25)

So maybe my OS 30 FS might not be too small for it? I also have an OS 52FS but I was thinking that might be too much? Just trying to get a happy medium!

[Denis Watkins]

Yes Piers, the OS 30FS is ideal for the model and mine flys on a 9 x 5 prop

[Peter Christy]

Mine (back in the 60's) was no lightweight, being nylon covered and carrying around a 6-channel (3-function) relay reed receiver, yet it leapt off the ground powered by a Merco 35, swinging an 11x6 prop!

An OS 30 FS or modern 25 2-stroke are probably comparable in power output to the old Merco 35, though the 25 may struggle on an 11x6!

I would suggest 5% Nitro, or 10% at the absolute max. Only serious contest flyers need more, and then only for some applications. And your engines will last longer on lower nitro content, as unburnt nitro forms nitric acid in the crankcase and will eventually damage the bearings. Its a good idea to run an engine dry at the end of each session, and if its not going to be used for a while, dribble a few drops of oil into it before laying it up.

--

Pete

[Piers Bowlan]

Thank you Denis and Peter, very helpful. And I will try and lay off the Nitro. Hic!

[Chris B 3]

Thanks for all the advice guys, it's really helping me move along. I'm looking at the fuel at for some reason there is a serious lack of glow fuel in Ireland!!!! I've managed to find one place that does 15% nitro but nothing less so I'm guessing I'll go with that unless anything else turns up!

I managed to salvage the wing, but it involved cutting the TE off in segments and I did a little damage to some of the ribs. Big lesson learned there!! I remade the wing up and have done a dry run to check how straight it is. It's a decent effort for a first time but I get why you need make sure all your angles are right on the wing build as my ribs are not entirely flush when I put them together. However they are close enough that I thing they will be fine...at least I hope!!!

[Chris B 3]

I'll glue the wings tonight and work on finishing them up whilst I wait for the replacement balsa which will allow me to start up on the fuselage again!!

Fun flyer - thanks for the landing gear advice I will def be using the rubber bands as opposed to the fixed landing gear

Cheers

Chris

[Stuart Z]

Chris,

Looks like you're still progressing so that's good. I lose count sometimes of the mistakes I've made so developed a stock of odd pieces of balsa and ply. As for fuel, I buy at model shows, when I can, to save having to go round model shops.

If you are having to use 15% your engine will be easier to start and tick over, but yes, it's more expensive and not strictly necessary. Do, though make sure you run the tank dry to minimise a build up of corrosive in the crank case. Get a bottle of after- run oil so you can put it in at the end of the day.

S

[Chris B 3]

Thanks,Stuart. I found a place in Dublin who say they can get me 10% so hopefully I will have the right fuel. My latest foul up has come when trying to glue the wings. I have one glued with the correct dihedral angle, but I have somehow managed to glue the other with hardly any angle. The centrepiece must have come unpinned slightly whilst I was applying the epoxy to the braces. Now I'm no expert but that can't be good to have one wing angled more than the other. Is this something which is a show stopper for me, or can I get around it with the trim set up on the aircraft.

Chris

[Stuart Z]

Chris,

Unluckily, no, the wrong dihedral will not be good and needs to be rectified. You're building the 4 channel so there is not a great deal of dihedral, certainly nothing like the 4" on the 3 channel, however they do need to match. My only suggestion would be to try a razor saw down the line of the glue joint with the wing brace.

Maybe someone else has an idea?

S

[Chris B 3]

Thanks, Stuart!! Learning big lessons all the time now! At least I'll be ready for next build. I had resigned myself to having to try and remove the offending wing so it's no surprise! I think once I had amassed the right tool collection I will cut my own braces next time and make them much longer!! So today's project will be building up the fuse and removing the wing!!!

cheers chris

[Fun Flyer]

Chris, you could try sawing off the offending wing where it joins the centre section. Then inserting a new dihedral brace made to fit. Easier done than it sounds. When you're reassembling the wing, prop up the "good" side to the correct dihedral at the tip, make sure the centre section is flat on the surface, then prop up the other tip to match.

Are you joining a club by the way?

[Mike Etheridge 1]

Yes it is vital that the wings are configured accurately with no twists and the same dihedral. When I first built my Keil Kraft Junior 60 wings in 1962/3 they were very slightly twisted. After I fitted proportional radio in about 1976 if you gave the plane right rudder and held it for too long the plane would go a spin and it was necessary to throttle back and give full left rudder to get out of trouble. However eventually the plane suffered radio interference on Epsom Downs on a crowded Sunday and piled in. I then took the opportunity to correct the wing twist and the plane was re-covered with red nylon apart from the tail plane which was recovered with solar film. With aileron wings slight twists can be less of a problem and any flight issues can be trimmed out.

The old Junior 60 is about ready again for a test flight with Oratex covering other than the wing which still has the 1976 nylon covering and the original 6 inches dihedral under each wing. The OS 20 is now fitted.

[Chris B 3]

Thanks Mike/fun flyer!! I spent yesterday cuttin tie wing off and managed to do so slowly without too much damage. I'm going to remake it up today being extra careful!! After I took wing off I'd had enough of looking at it so put it to one side and started work back on the fuse. I had made up former F5!and having spent an age trying to position the fuel tank, made the relevant holes in formers f3 and f4 in order for them to accept it. I glued F4 and F5 in place last night and allowed them to dry overnight and this morning I have added the second side of the fuse. It's starting to look like a plane a little now!!

 

Edited By Chris B 3 on 16/07/2017 11:17:09