Chris's Super 60 Build

[Chris B 3]

Hello and welcome to my build blog.

I am building the Ben Buckle Super 60 4 channel version and powering it with an OS Max 25 FP (as my dad had an old one in his shed he bought years ago for when he was going to try and build one).

I have zero builds under my belt and not much flying experience (practically none). In fact my only flying experience is when my dad let me throw two of his RTF planes for him. The first flight lasted 3 seconds whilst the second about 7 seconds before nose diving into the ground at great speed.

My woodwork skills are lacking also and I dont really have much in the tool or budget department for this build. I want to use this experience to produce a decent airworthy aircraft.

My design/engineering area for this build was going to be the kitchen until my wife told me otherwise and so I have cleared one of the sheds out and fitted it with a work top and this will be man cave for the duration of this project.

So anyhow that's a little background on the project, I may have bitten off more than I can chew but I would rather that than something too simple. I will try to keep the blog updated as I go and any feedback/comments/criticisms will be greatly welcome.

Thanks

Chris

[Chris B 3]

Week 1

So when the Ben Buckle box arrived I was like a kid at Christmas and desperate to get cracking on. However I had no balsa cement or pins as they were on order from Ebay and they didn't arrive until Thursday so I had to wait.

I got copies of the plans made at my local printers, I would say its really helpful doing this as you can cut out various parts of the plan and stick them to various boards. I used a cellophane covering for them which meant the missus wasn't too happy as when she came to use some it was all gone. The child got the blame for that until I came clean

I started off on Thursday making the Tail and the Fin I decided to cut long and sand the pieces down to size using 120 grit. I found that when cutting the balsa I was taking chunks out of it so switched to another knife which must have been sharper as that seem to do the trick.

Friday Evening I made start on the Fuselage. I found that this was really enjoyable and the time just flew by. Im building both sides simultaneously and plan to pry them open with a knife once complete - Well that's what Ben Buckle says at least..

Here is where I am at the moment. Ive pinned and glued all the uprights and have cut the diaganols ready to be sanded to size tomorrow.

One think I have seen on other blogs are these L shape brackets/clamps to help the fuselage keep its form when you put the sides upright. Could someone tell me what these are called and if anyone has any ideas for home made ones.

Cheers

Chris

[Stuart Z]

They come with the SLEC fuselage jig. To be honest I did not use that as I supported the fuselage over the plan. Useful to have lots of pins and heavy weights to hold things in place.

[John Keywood]

Hi Chris, watching with interest. I like an 'old time' build.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Watching with interest...I really must build a Super 60 one day....

Loving the Balsa Cement too......real old time stuff. Chris you might find that PVA "white wood glue" (think Evostik Resin W) might be worth a try....particularly for gluing larger areas like wing sheeting etc. as it gives more working time. It is also stronger than balsa cement &, whilst not wishing to cast aspersions on your building abilities, is better at filling gaps too.

Cyanoacrylate A.K.A. Superglue is useful too but only works on close fitting joints....personally I wouldn't use it on something like a SS60 as it can be brittle & inflexible leading to a failed joint.

Epoxy adhesive (think Araldite) also useful for high stress joints such as wing joiners, engine bearers & firewalls too.....

Remember the old adage....measure twice, cut once & if you get stuck post a question before proceeding...much easier to explain how to do something than to explain how to take it apart & do it correctly...

[kc]

You can find a photo of a homemade fuselage jig on the first page of Tools you can make yourself. I used 2BA tee nuts and bolts, but M6 'Insert nuts' and M6 roofing bolts from Screwfix are cheaper and neater - preferably fix the insert nuts from the undersideas you would tee nuts.

The uprights were screwed with 1 screw to the slotted parts and adjusted to exactly 90 degrees and the glue left to dry.   The slots were made by drilling each end and then sawing with a coping saw, but it would be easier to laminate them by inserting  a 1/4 inch ( 6.5mm )  spacer between 2 battens.  Mke them in a long length and saw them apart when the glue is dry,  each spacer is sawn in half avoiding numerous fiddly bits to assemble.   Glue could be Evostik Wood Glue ( Resin W ) or similar.  Use that on most of the plane as someone said previously. Anything that is not clear - just ask.

You can buy just the jig brackets from SLEC but they are not much cheaper than buying the complete jig.

 

Edited By kc on 01/07/2017 19:42:35

[Stuart Z]

Talking about cutting, a good razor saw and a David plane (razor plane) will be very helpful with this and future builds

Sorry for suggesting if you already have these.

[Dwain Dibley.]

Chris, Well done so far Matey..

With regards to the Fuselage sides, the tip is to build one side, cover with plastic sheet/cling film etc, then build the next one on top. They will then be separate items that don't need prizing apart. It may be worth separating them now and doing this before gluing any more bits on.

D.D.

[Piers Bowlan]

+1 for PVA to glue the fuselage together or alternatively Super Phatic adhesive, here. A good choice of model to build and fly Chris, my only thought is that the non-aileron wing which has more dihedral, so is therefore more stable, might be preferable for a beginner to fly. Its also less work to build/rebuild!

Just my 2p worth.

[Chris B 3]

Hi All

Thanks for all the comments, greatly appreciated.

Stuart/KC – Thanks for the jig and strings and weight info, it will be handy once I start putting the fuse together

Stuart – Thanks for the tools advice. The razor saw looks like a great addition. I have spent the last while looking at balsa cutting videos as I’ve snapped about 5 blades and I’m butchering some of my cuts.

Steve H – thanks for the advice there. I have questions already if you are able to assist please

Dwain – Great call on the coating in between the 2 fuse sides. However I was already committed and it took be great pains to pry the 2 sides apart causing a bit of damage which I will need to sand out.

Piers – The non-aileron wing would probably be the correct route to go, but I’m a bit daft and enjoying the challenge. For me is win-win, the enjoyment of trying to figure it out, and if I do crash it then the wife will have to let me build another one J

Build Update

So I have manged to eventually pry the sides of the fuse apart, causing more damage than I would have liked. I filled any holes and weak joints with some evo-stik/saw dust combo. There were not as many holes as I thought so I was quite pleased.

I’m waiting on the servos and fuel tank to arrive so I’m putting the fuse build on hold and starting on the wings.

The wings are a lot more daunting that what I envisaged. I have done a dry run to see what they should look like

I am really struggling to see how the leading edge attaches to the wingtip (former W2) Does it sit on top and then I shape the underside of the former to match the leading edge angle?

Also the wingtip formers seem to large, they go all the way to the leading edge where as in the plans they seem to finish a few mm under the top edge of the rule? If that’s the case Im guessing I need to resize them?

Could anyone offer any advice here?

Cheers

[Stuart Z]

Chris

I'm a bit blindsided here as I no longer have the BB plan but I do have a Keil Kraft Super 60 plan (KK were the original makers of the first kit I had which was single channel and I converted to 3 channel, 1960's/70's I think)

On the plan, the wing tips (2 pieces) attach to the leading edge via a notch cut into the leading edge front piece, the notch is the depth of the leading edge so roughly 1/4" deep, this is the shorter of the 2 pieces. The longer of the 2 pieces attaches to the rear of the front spar and to the inside edge of the trailing edge. Yours will be to the edge in front of the aileron so the trailing edge of the main wing section.

As for the wing tip, I cannot remember but I remember having to work out a joint here. I think I took it through to tip rib and then shaped it down to the wing tip.

Sorry I cannot recall in detail but hopefully there will be someone here that still has the BB plan.

Keep asking questions and someone will be able to help.

S

[Fun Flyer]

Hi Chris, welcome to the S60 club! It's a great model, I've built several and wouldn't be without one. The aileron wing is, in my opinion, a much more stable flyer than the 3 channel version and well worth the extra effort. There's plenty of room for a servo in each wing.

What cutting tools are you using? As already suggested a good modelling knife and a razor saw are a good investment for this type of build.

[Dave Garrett 1]

Hi Chris.

I build a 4 channel version about 10 years ago (also the low wing version).

If I remember correctly, the 2 wing tip pieces are joined together before fitting & are not separated by the lower main spar. The lower main spar ends at the inside edge of the joined wing tip pieces. The top wing spar ends at the last rib. A separate angled piece of spar stock runs from the top main spar to mate with the top face of the wing tips (ending at outside edge). Also the wing tip does not lay flat on the building board. The front edge of the joined wing tip has to be raised to meet the leading edge. The front edge of the wing tip is also chamfered at approximately 45 degrees to mate correctly with the leading edge.

After removing from the board, the lower spars will be slightly proud of the wing tips lower surface. The lower spars can be tapered from the last wing rib for a nice blend.

I hope this helps

Dave

[Chris B 3]

[Chris B 3]

Thanks all.

Flicking through the instructions and I think we are right in taking one of the loew spats through the 2 wing tips.

The scarf joint for the upper spar to wing tip makes sense too.

Point 7 says to cut LE to size and the pin and glue. According to plans leading edge is 1/4 x 1/4 (same as the spars). The plans seem to have the LE running past the last rib to the tip of the wing.

It makes sense that the tip should be raised and the LE meets it at its edge, but in the dry run when I follow the instructions it doesn't work out like that for me (see above pic in previous point)

Cheers

Chris

[Piers Bowlan]

Chris, I have just 'dug out' my ancient BB Super Sixty (three channel) kit from my kit mountain. According to the supplied plan the lower forward spar continues to the very tip. The upper spar ends at the last rib and a further piece extends down to be feathered into the lower spar at the tip. Therefore the curved 1/4 inch tip pieces, W1 & W2, are not joined together but separated by the spar. W1 & W2 should be pined flat to the plan, so that with the ribs in place the 1/4in square leading edge piece sits on top of W2 (as per your photo above) There is a note on the plan that says 'Fill in with scrap and sand to match rib'. This means a triangular section piece of wood fits between the LE piece and W2 (shaded black on the photo you posted above). Once removed from the building board you can have fun sanding away the excess wood to follow the curve of the LE profile.

There is nothing wrong with the way Dave built his wings, it is a free country and it could be better, but it is not what is indicated on the BB plan that I have at any rate. The important thing is to enjoy the build and don't get too hung up if something doesn't quite turn out right. Once its is all covered no one will ever know - except you of course!

[Stuart Z]

Chris

Piers makes a good point, I remember some challenges between the kit and my understanding of the instructions to the extent that when I had finished I had a piece left over. No I won't confuse you by telling which piece. However the plane flew a treat even when "chucked" around so no harm done. One thing I do remember was making stronger wing braces for the centre section to ensure the plane didn't applaud my efforts. The standard ones were fine, I just knew I was not going to fly sedately.

[Chris B 3]

Thanks, Piers. I appreciate you going to that effort. I would never have figured that out. Its good to know that there are elements of "freestyle" to the build. I'm going to crack on with the wings now over the next few days.

Stuart - If I only have one piece left over I will be more than happy!! Good call on the brace, I wont be intentionally "chucking" it about but it makes sense to have extra support to contend with my bad flying!

Thanks guys!

[Fun Flyer]

Chris, I usually sheet the forward fuselage sides with 1/16 ply. It makes it much more robust for very little additional weight. Also does your kit have hardwood wing spars and leading edge?

Edited By Fun Flyer on 04/07/2017 20:19:49

[Piers Bowlan]

Thanks for the reminder Stuart. I just had a rummage through my old BB kit box and found the spar braces! Yikes! I remember seeing a Super 60 flying on Epson Downs 'centuries' ago. It went into a shallow dive and promptly clapped its wings together - now I know why. Perhaps the 'aileron wing' has a full-depth ply wing joiner now? It is not the flight loads that is the issue but what happens if you do a 'three point' landing... port landing gear, wingtip and propeller! In the unlikely event you cartwheel the model on landing the wing joiner (as designed) may get damaged which may not be obvious until your next flight....

This is where someone will tell me that their Super 60 has been flying for the last 40 years with the stock wing joiner!

[Chris B 3]

 

Hi fun flyer - the spars and leading edge are all balsa 1/4 x 1/4

There are 6 plywoods braces but they only go to the second rib and not all the way through the wing. I worked on the port wing and the dry run really helped me. Just letting it dry now befor I trim the spars and leading edge to fit and the epoxy on the first R3 rib. I did read somewhere in these forums about people Putting the brace all the way through the wing. It make sense but for my first build I think I'll just stick with what I have in the pack. I like the idea of the ply reinforcement for the forward part of the fuselage though.

The leading edge sat right onto the wing tip and I glued some scrap infill behind to strengthen the join before sanding to shape later on. Thanks again guys for helping out there as I was ata complete loss with that!!

 

Edited By Chris B 3 on 04/07/2017 22:04:17

Edited By Chris B 3 on 04/07/2017 22:06:12

[Stuart Z]

Posted by Piers Bowlan on 04/07/2017 20:32:37:

Thanks for the reminder Stuart. I just had a rummage through my old BB kit box and found the spar braces! Yikes! I remember seeing a Super 60 flying on Epson Downs 'centuries' ago. It went into a shallow dive and promptly clapped its wings together - now I know why. Perhaps the 'aileron wing' has a full-depth ply wing joiner now? It is not the flight loads that is the issue but what happens if you do a 'three point' landing... port landing gear, wingtip and propeller! In the unlikely event you cartwheel the model on landing the wing joiner (as designed) may get damaged which may not be obvious until your next flight....

This is where someone will tell me that their Super 60 has been flying for the last 40 years with the stock wing joiner!

Of course this all depends on what you intend to do with the model. I just knew I was going to do aerobatics with it with big throws so it seemed sensible to strengthen the wings. I also put an extra 1/4 square of spruce inside the front of the cockpit upright to save a repeat of my KKs landing one day which was a tad too hard and the wing collapsed the front of the cockpit. I' m sure if I had stuck with the plan everything on my latest S60 would have been fine, just didn't want to over stress a pretty model with my clumsy flying.

[Fun Flyer]

Don't keep us in suspense Chris. How's the build going?

[Chris B 3]

Hi Fun Flyer

Hit a bit of a stall as I was awaiting for a few items to come! The fuel tank came today which means I can restart the fuselage over the next few days. I also have a dilemma as to which engine to use as father brought an Irvine 49 around. Originally I was going to power with OSmax 25 FP. Im worried that the Irvine will be too powerful for my first build, especially as I've built to plan and I think there is definite scope for reinforcements. What do you recommend using?

[Chris B 3]

I've started on the centre piece now, this is what I have Sonfar which isn't my finest work. The instructions aren't too great and only the front and centre compartments have sheeting flush with bottom of the ribs. Does that sound right or should the back 3 compartments have sheeting too?

Cheers chris