LiPO Fire extinguisher help needed

[Vic Clare 1]

I am fortunate in that I have a dedicated room within the house that has been converted into a modelling workshop. it has a door to access the patio and extractor fans to keep most of those unpleasant smells and dust out of the rest of the house.

I've recently expanded my fleet into electrics and have a selection of Lipos in a recently purchased Bat Safe which is a great addition. I'm now looking to add a 'CLASS ' D ' fire extinguisher suitable for lipo fires ( just in case ) to my existing class 'A & B' that hangs on one side of the patio door. I would appreciate any thoughts, comments and or guidance and recommendations from fellow members.

All information would be gratefully received.

VC

[Braddock, VC]

For such a vital piece of equipment I recommend you should ask your local fire protection officer for advice. The chances are that any advice you get from a forum, this or any other, is more than likely to be anecdotal rather than objective.

My 2p.

[Don Fry]

Seconded.

[Don Fry]

And tell us what the advice was.

[Old Geezer]

On the same subject - keeping LiPos in the house, what in? Is there ANYTHING which would safely confine a LiPo fire sufficiently to prevent the likely smoke damage, as well as preventing the fire from spreading? We're not just talking about a single 3S 2200 here, half a dozen 4S 4000s are an entirely different scale of risk.

After a "big think" I have started to store my batteries outside the house - ok, according to the stat's the chances of any of my well cared for LiPos self-immolating are vanishingly small - but it's going to happen to someone - - - - - and the the insurance claim might be interesting ( has anybody made a successful claim? )

Same question, where do you keep your fireproof box, in the garage - - with your car? Garden shed? OK May to October but outside the house In the winter - frost protection heater?

OK - any constructive suggestions?

[flight1]

A lipo fire is a chemical reaction , it is self feeding as when it break downs it releases it's own oxygen so it keeps going until exhausted!!

Best safe practice is to store them in a non combustible container (say metal) and have a fire blanket to contain the fire from spreading until exhausted. also a open metal bin with nothing above to throw them in with fire blanket if say you short one out while making connections. I know this as I did short out a lipo a few years ago (4000Mah) and fortunately the back door was open and it went out that way in a blink of an eye to do its think on the paving stones and it is a good thing the door was open otherwise I had no other option at the time and that would have led to a mess !!

[Martin Whybrow]

The way airlines deal with Lithium ion battery (valid for LiPos as well) fires is to drop them in a metal bucket and pour water on them; you need to cool the battery down below the point where it's breaking down. You will hear people telling you not to put water on a metal fire - they're correct, but there's no lithium metal in a lithium ion battery so it's OK to use water.

[brokenenglish]

Does anyone know what dealers and warehouses, etc. do?

And what about sending the things through the mail. I buy all mine from HK, and they come in a normal, well-protected parcel.

I've been keeping my Lipos aligned on a shelf in my office for the last 5 years. Just making sure that there can be no electrical contact of any kind.

I've seen a demonstration of a Lipo being bashed, and going up in smoke, and a couple of weeks ago there was a story on here of a clown who put all his Lipos in one bag (just asking for contact!), but has anyone ever had a serious problem with properly treated Lipos?

[onetenor]

Never the less Flight1 a mess is preferable to a fire. Any way in the sink with cold water running on it would reduce any mess.I would far rather replace a sink ( if it was a plastic sink for instance ) than replace a house. Or just the kitchen. If the sink was full of water the Lipo could have gone right in it, or a bucket of water nearby. I try to keep flammables like thinners ,Methanol,etc in a cabinet outside and away from sheds ,feces and flammable parts of the house. My handyman suggested I keep it in a cupboard affair outside built in .I told him to have a really good look at it and let me know what he thought .He came back 5 mins later and said no john can't do it's under the stairs. Yep ,I said ,I know that's why I haven't done it before. You see how easily I could have created a hazard..The point of this anecdote is do please check very very ,carefully where you store any of our hobby kit flammables. I even keep house paint nearby and the garden hose reel permanently connected to the tap and ready to pull out. ( except in frosty weather to avoid bursting the hose which I drain) It is the work of moments to reconnect with snap on joints. I'm very "Fire Aware " Having been on a works fire brigade at a chemical works. Self or easily combusted gear was all over the place and we were often called out. Sulphur and spirit were the hardest to control. Anyway please be careful out there .

[John C]

Some useful information here **LINK**

[Charles Smitheman]

"has anyone ever had a serious problem with properly treated Lipos?"

Yes. Many years ago when a 1300 mah 3s pack cost £50!

As I was plugging the connectors in to fly the model the pack short circuited inside and burned briefly, but only at the wiring connection end. This was inside the pack and nothing to do with the bullet connector outside that I was plugging in at the time. On reflection I suspect that there was an insulation fault where the balance wires were connected to the cells inside the pack. As soon as the wire had burned loose from the cell, the fire went out. I was lucky.

So the fire was caused by wiring, and not a spontaneous chemical reaction.

I have also some years back had a new pack where there was a dry solder joint between one of the balance leads and the cell. This utterly confused my charger at the time and it tried to over charge the cell. I was watching and detected it in time. This could have been disastrous.

So in my experience the lipos are more likely to do something nasty whilst they are being handled in any way.

Now I only purchase top brand packs and use a top brand charger.

 

Fire extinguishers: I always have a CO2 extinguisher to hand. These would not extinguish a burning lipo as it releases its own oxygen, but it would help lower the temperature. They are excellent for liquid fires such as petrol. And no mess at all. The problem with all extinguishers is that they don't last very long. And they do nothing if not pointed properly at the base of the flame. Seconds count.

[The Wright Stuff]

I have a bucket of sand, to dump on the Lipo (on a concrete garage floor) if necessary. To be honest, I think the 'best' solution is so highly dependent upon the surroundings, that there won't be a unique 'best' solution for everyone...

[Robert Parker]

Just read through this thread and I like you Vic have a dedicated room in the house as well as a converted attic (a Lipo free zone). I have been using Lipos etc for some time without mishap always charging at 1/2C in a Lipo bag and always good brand batteries and charger and until recently kept my Lipos four of them all 3s upto 6000mAh on the window cill (no direct sunlight until late afternoon) for a couple of years or since dabbling in the dark side.

That is until the last time I went flying where I flew my model and battery on it's second flight which seemed lower on performance than the previous flight. I landed the plane early and retrieved the model where on picking up was red hot, I instantly removed the battery which was ready to burst, thankfully it did not. I have no idea what caused it to do so but I now sore the remaining Lipos in an old pressure cooker in the shed.

Until reading this thread I had not paid much consideration to the fire risk from Lipos but having had 1st hand experience of nearly loosing a model in flight, but the thought of one going up in the middle of the night in the house is not a nice thought indeed.

Regards

Robert

[John C]

Posted by Martin Whybrow on 10/08/2017 19:56:50:

The way airlines deal with Lithium ion battery (valid for LiPos as well) fires is to drop them in a metal bucket and pour water on them; you need to cool the battery down below the point where it's breaking down. You will hear people telling you not to put water on a metal fire - they're correct, but there's no lithium metal in a lithium ion battery so it's OK to use water.

Thanks for this advice which I had not heard before.

There is a good video on this method on the CAA website: **LINK**

[Charles Smitheman]

Thanks for that link. So the bucket of water is a good idea after all.

[OZ e flyer]

Check out bat-safe guys. I think it's a great product. I know it's not the cheapest, but it is so convenient. Safe storage of your lipos and a great safe charging station. I have 2 and love them. It always worried me leaving lipos in my garage, even in a lipo bag. Bat-safe has bought me peace of mind. Check out the web site. Clever design for a metal box.

[Martin Whybrow]

Posted by Charles Smitheman on 11/08/2017 15:34:36:

Thanks for that link. So the bucket of water is a good idea after all.

I'm sure somebody mentioned that yesterday

[flight1]

bat safe cheepest y can get it in uk here a nice product It will be on my xmas list

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Gary Manuel]

THIS company sell fire extinguishers for Lithium batteries.

 

Edit - Bargain at £226

Edited By Gary Manuel on 11/08/2017 18:55:34

[Dave Hopkin]

When I first read this thread, I send a email to Manchester Fire and Rescue asking them what the bet extinguisher type was, their reply.................... "Consult the Manufacturer"!!!!!!!!!!

[Don Fry]

To the bloke above, who recommends co2extinguishers on a petrol fire, I take it you have never seen the flamethrower effect you get when the gas stream lifts burning petrol into the middle distance.

On a personal note, the point made above that fire extinguishers don't last long, is a fact. Over my life I have tried to put out perhaps a dozen car engine fires, and failed every time, powder extinguishers. When I sailed yachts, every exit from the boat had an extinguisher. It was there, not to put a fire out, but to suppress the fire long enough to get the crew out. Then the boat burned. You were either chucking water from outside, or you were overboard.

Never fight a fire without first getting your exit route sorted. I have seen people who didn't. Don't get to look like that.

[Allan Bennett]

My approach is to store my LiPos in a compartmentalised plasterboard box (about 30 minutes fire resistance) and to have an extinguisher that's capable of dealing only with any fire that spreads to surrounding surfaces. I have a smoke alarm immediately above the storage box.

Edited By Allan Bennett on 12/08/2017 04:56:04

[Chris Walby]

I think Allan B has the most valid point of fire detection along with others that have mentioned exit route.

The key is detection, if you right in front of it then plan your exit route, call 999 and then try a deal with it, if you are not at the scene of the incident then you will want to know ASAP so can get out and call 999.

I really don't like the idea of a powder type due to the mess, but for its flexibility and good fire knockdown I think it would the choice for me (if I didn't still have by BFC ones!), in the end its better to have a powder mess than sifting through the burnt remains of your shed/house.

[MaL]

Posted by Gary Manuel on 11/08/2017 18:41:58:

THIS company sell fire extinguishers for Lithium batteries.

Edit - Bargain at £226

Edited By Gary Manuel on 11/08/2017 18:55:34

Plus the recommended training before being let loose with one......