Flummoxed?????

[Robert Edney]

Hi there, I always wanted to build a plane from scratch and recently bought a short kit of an embark beginner's glider, well the instructions they emailed me are very vague to say the least and am very confused. I wonder if anyone has built one of these before? Any help would be great. Thanks, rob

[Denis Watkins]

This information is for the guys that may help you

This is a 2ch (or 3ch if you add a motor) Rudder / Elevator beginners glider. The parts are CNC routed out of balsa and ply. The wingspan is 1500mm, all up weight (without motor) should be approx 750g dependant on grade of wood you use, glue you use, covering you use etc...

Parts in the kit comprise:

• All wing ribs (1/16" Balsa)

• 1/16" Ply dihedral braces

• All inter longeron / upright sheeting for the sides and the bottom 1/16" Balsa

• 1/16" Balsa wing shear webs pre-cut

• 1/8" F1 nose former

• 1/16" Shaped wing sheeting

• Wing dowel doublers in 1/16" Balsa (there are 2 front and 4 rear, sandwich 2 rear together to make 1)

• Wing root rib angle gauge in 3 pieces, simply glue together to make the gauge

All you need to supply (wood) is:

• 1/4" square strip balsa wood (it's much cheaper to buy a balsa stripper and strip your own!) hard balsa is preferable but at a minimum medium balsa, approx 12 strips

• 2 sheets of 1/16" Balsa for sheeting the wings

• 4 strips of 3.2mm x 5mm (1/8" x 3/16" spruce spars 915mm long

• 1/4" hard wood dowel for the wing dowels

• 1 sheet of 1/4" soft balsa sheet for making the large central piece in the elevator and the nose block

You will need all hardware such as , hinges, snakes, connectors, clevices, servos, control horns, RX, battery, switch, glue (CA and quick setting PVA) covering of your choice etc. etc.

 

[Andy G.]

It may be helpful to contact your local club and get some first hand guidance and advice.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

OK, it sounds like what you have is a plan and a lot of wood. In theory this is sufficient to build an aeroplane - in theory! It depends of course on if you can read and interpret the plan. Plans are a "language" all of their own, with symbols and styles of representation having specific meanings. If you know the code you can "read" the plan - if you don't then much of it is lost on you.

Also, even if you can read the plan, you then need to know how to implement it. In reality the structure of most model aeroplanes follows one of a small number of well known types - again, know the types and you are fine - but if not all this can be a bit of a mystery.

OK, so what to do? Its sounds to me like you need some help in plan reading and having an idea of the basic "pattern" for putting your model together so you can develop a building strategy. I think a really good place to go for this is one of Peter Miller's books. Peter did an excellent book some years ago which, if I remember correctly, detailled how to read plans and covered the basics of construction. I read through that should get you started. The problem is,....I can't remember the name of the book!!

Can anyone else help here - jog my memory with the title of Peter's book in this area? Perhaps Peter himself might look in?

BEB

[kc]

High Flying on a Low Budget is probably the book BEB refers to but the Aeromodellers Book of Tips & Techniques would be worth buying as the set of two. Both by Peter Miller and still available from Sarik ( was Traplet )

Just following any of the build blogs here on the forum would probably provide all the info required for building, try the Mass Build section for some builds.

This book by David Boddington would be worth buying too ( get all these books whilst they are available) and it's a bargain even when postage is included.  It explains all the basics but beware that electric flight has moved on and there are few if any books that cover the latest brushless motors and Lipo batteries - see this forum for info on this aspect.

Edited By kc on 10/01/2018 09:54:16

[Peter Miller]

In fact I don't think any of my books covered basic building 0r plan reading. There were some articles on the subject but you would have to find the back issues.

Amazon do a good book Aircraft Workshop by Kelvin Shacklock That could help. The second hand versions are very cheap.

Quite frankly I should put your Part Kit aside and invest in a good kit with good instructions. THis will be more expensive but will guide you through the construction step by step and give you a good basis for your next model

[Dave Bran]

Posted by Peter Miller on 10/01/2018 11:00:41:

Quite frankly I should put your Part Kit aside and invest in a good kit with good instructions. THis will be more expensive but will guide you through the construction step by step and give you a good basis for your next model

+1

[Piers Bowlan]

Rod, my advice is to take a stroll around as many build blogs on this forum as you can, like this one for instance. Cut through all the chat but look at the build photos, Nigels's one has some good photos of a basic build of the RM trainer. Most wings have pretty much the same type of structure made up of ribs and a spar. Fuselages too are generally just a box made up of sides, formers, a top and bottom.

Just my 2p worth.

[Nigel R]

Piers, you are far too generous - none of my photos are very good!

I would second Petes suggestion of a complete kit with full step by step instructions.

Short kits are great time savers when you have one or two builds under your belt.

[Cuban8]

How about a Balsa Cabin Sonata? **LINK**

It's an inexpensive trad kit with a plan and instructions and not too difficult to complete, but will be enough of a challenge if you've not built anything from a box of balsa before. A guaranteed good flyer either thermal , electric or slope; learn the basics of building, covering and installation on it and move on to a plan build later where you'll have to formulate your own MO regarding material selection, assembly etc.

Good luck Robert.

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 10/01/2018 13:12:40

[Robert Edney]

Thanks for the replies guys, I found a club that flies just a couple of miles down the road so am going to take a stroll down there on Sunday and see if anyone can help as I would still like to builds this plane as it was a gift, building the fuselage seems straight forward and the wings sort of but the instructions are vague and make no mention as to exactly where the shaped wing sheeting goes, I mean you can see them on the plans but top or bottom or in between spars, also it mentions front and rear centre sheeting but how wide there is no reference on the plan!!, but I am determined to make it if it takes all year. Thanks again guys

[kc]

You need to study the plan very carefully - most plans reveal all the info if you study the sectional drawings ( e.g. wing ribs ) in conjunction with the other views. Usually wing sheeting goes on top and below but not always. Looking at the rib drawings should reveal whether the ribs are recessed in some areas to allow for sheeting or whether they are made to have 'capstrips' ( often 1/4 inch wide strips ) to even up the surface.  There may be 2 or more types of ribs with different areas recessed to allow for sheeting - look carefully.  Sheeting wont go between th spars! But here may be 'webbing' - vertical grain balsa joining the top and bottom spars.

Post a photo of the wing rib part of the plan and this will allow us to advise further.

Edited By kc on 10/01/2018 14:00:22

[Robert Edney]

Just put a coup!e of not very good pics in my album, if you can see them you might see the problem, crappy plans and the instructions are not much better

[MABX]

Rob this book is one of the best reference books for building i have found with simple drawings and easily understood text. I have used this book for nearly 30 years and still go back to it from time to time.

Model Aeroplane Building: Sketch by Sketch by Peter Holland. It has hundreds of illustrations and techniques from basic to advanced. You can still pick it up on ebay and Amazon.

The picture on the front of the book is one of Peter's designs "Sky Chief" which is still available from Sarik RM131 a model which I still fly regularly.

[kc]

Robert, your photos are too poor to be certain but it looks as though there are two differnt types of wing rib - the ones to the centre section are presumably a little smaller to allow for the wing sheeting, while the rest probably have a raised centre part where there is no wing sheeting. So the wing sheeting would appear to be all over the centre section and taper out with the rounded part so there is no hard edge to cause weakness, then just the leading and trailing edges. All very conventional. Study other plans to get the idea. Lay the parts out on the plan without any glue and see how it all works - standard practice to have a dry run.   The quantity of shaped wing sheeting will tell you if it is sheeted top and bottom or top only - of course allow for 2 wing halves.   Make certain you build a right and left wing panel and not 2 left panels or 2 right!

Also standard practice with experienced builders is to draw around every shaped part of a kit onto paper ( lining paper from a wallpaper shop is ideal ) so that you have a pattern in case you make a mistake or a crash. Then you can make a replacement part. Note the material and thickness also grain direction on your paper patern.

Edited By kc on 10/01/2018 16:13:11

[Robert Edney]

Thanks kc, the tip about making templates for repairs or mistakes is a good one, you do learn something new everyday!

[kc]

Looking at the photos on EBAY it seems that the top 2 ribs in the photo are smaller to allow for the sheeting. If you put one of these ribs on the other sort and line up the spar slots you should see where the sheeting is allowed for. It appears that centre section is sheeted top and bottom while the outer parts are only sheeted on the top at LE and TE.  Note that the spar slots for the lower spar seem shallower than the rest.

Frankly your best bet is to show the kit to an experienced builder and ask his opinion. Don't just wander up to your local club - phone the secretary and ask who is the best person to give advice on building and when does he go to the field. Most people don't stay long at the field in this cold weather.and only a small percentage of club members are proper builders these days. If you tell us the name of your local club then maybe one of the members is on this forum.

Edited By kc on 10/01/2018 16:46:28

[Robert Edney]

It is Southend radio flying club, they fly at two tree island at Leigh on sea if that helps

[kc]

Looking at this supplier I see they do a short kit for a mMAAOSwl9BWLlEV">Fournier Ofour9ier which surely was a Peter Miller design from Radio Modeller or RCM if my memory is not playing tricks. Pretty cheap at 25 pound including postage! Most plans cost nearly that. Could be a better model to start with as the instructions would be better ( from the magazine) and Peter is here on the forum although the design is very old and he has designed several hundred since then! I wonder if Peter knows they are making kits of his design?

Not only an easier model to start with but a known performer too.

[PatMc]

Posted by kc on 10/01/2018 16:44:11:

Note that the spar slots for the lower spar seem shallower than the rest.

That's because the LE sheet is glued over the top spar.

[Robert Edney]

Thanks again guys, started to put it together dry and it sort of becomes a bit clearer. I think it will be OK, I'm gonna take my time and do the tail section and fuselage first as I think I know what I'm doing with them. Fingers crossed I will post some better pics as it starts to come together. Thanks again guys

[Peter Miller]

Yes,I know that there are copies of O Four Ninier around. Dosen't bother me.

IT was a nice model and would thermal well and also fly aerobatics.

I had a Cox Texaco in mine.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by Peter Miller on 10/01/2018 11:00:41:

In fact I don't think any of my books covered basic building 0r plan reading. There were some articles on the subject but you would have to find the back issues.

Ah, yes. I think I'm getting confused with articles I've seen. Isn't age a wonderful thing!

BEB

[Peter Miller]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 11/01/2018 12:17:40:

Posted by Peter Miller on 10/01/2018 11:00:41:

In fact I don't think any of my books covered basic building 0r plan reading. There were some articles on the subject but you would have to find the back issues.

Ah, yes. I think I'm getting confused with articles I've seen. Isn't age a wonderful thing!

BEB

Wait till you get to my age. Then you will know all about it!!!!

[kc]

Getting back to the questions about construction. If you look at the sellers website it shows a view of the plans and cut balsa also a drawing showing ribs and parts numbered. It would seem that the ribs would go as follows from centre

root rib ( not sure of number) angled as per the template ( i.e not exactly 90 degrees like all the other ribs- thats why it shows a curved line as viewed from above)

W1a in two parts to allow for the dihedral brace ( looks like two pieces of 1.5 mm ply which may have to be glued together )

W1 where it is sheeted

W2 for all the outer ribs which are not sheeted. ( not sure if the tip rib should be a W1 or W2 ?)

So if you pin down the lower 1/8 by 3/16 spruce spar first then place the centre section bottom sheeting down in front of spar and the trailing edge sheeting in place. i reckon you will find the ribs fit in their appropriate places and lie properly on th board.

By the way, many of us use a piece of plasterboard as a wing building board - must be dead flat. Wings are often built as 2 separate panels and joined together at the propre dihedral angle later. The dihedral brace is usually built into just one half leaving half sticking out to attach the other panel.

Just my view of the plans, so check to see if the instructions are similar. Ask if there is anything not clear.