Electric Cars.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Don Fry]

Thank you, I had a vision of you looking for the socket. Let us know how you get on with it.

[Frank Skilbeck]

One downside of plug in hybrids, was speaking to a club member who has one this morning and he told me after he's had it for 6 months, it came up with a message to say it had to run on Petrol to stop the fuel in the tank from going stale as he hadn't used much petrol so hadn't topped the tank up in 6 months. Meant he had to run the tank down to below 1/4 full and then add some fuel. He now only ever fills it up if he's planning on going on a long journey.

He said it was costing him about £7 in electricity per month to charge it and he does around 300+ miles per month on electric (mainly local journeys).

[Don Fry]

Don't know how I could live wth that down side.

[Andrew767]

I can't really see why it's such a downside. The vehicle won't stop running as EV only, even if no new fuel is put in. It's merely letting you know that the fuel is getting old. Add 15 litres (It doesn't need more than that) and carry on as normal. Frank, £7.00 sounds pretty good. I need about a tenners worth to do the same miles. Maybe it's just hillier around here.

Andrew

[Don Fry]

If I have to have a humourectomy to buy one, I might have to rethink.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[IDD15]

Erf and the Chinese are very much on the same page when it comes to buses. Think TfL has one at the moment with a few more on the way!

https://www.itdp.org/2018/09/11/electric-buses-china/

idd

[Frank Skilbeck]

Posted by Percy Verance on 31/10/2018 17:46:57:

Frank

£7 a month sounds pretty good. Is he using cheap rate charging Frank? My total annual mileage would probably be around twice what your friend covers.

Edited By Percy Verance on 31/10/2018 18:05:58

Yes, he charges it overnight to take advantage of that.

[Erfolg]

A news item on the BBC, reported that controlled road test with electric cars running the same road test regime, returned 50 miles less range than manufacturers claims. Which was identical to the conventional vehicles. As it was a news item the more you think of the report, you quickly come to the conclusion that the detail was missing.

It is also interesting, that the claimed CO2 benefits from buses when compared to cars, is very misleading. I guess deliberately so. As the figure is based on a single occupant car, whereas the bus appears to be approaching being full. A lot of the short comings of personal vehicles, as reported, seem ore about an ideology. Perhaps where the believe is that if cars can be eliminated, then the passenger numbers on a bus will be that claimed, not how the situation is currently.

I does appear that supporters of electric vehicles, are assuming that taxes will not be placed on electric cars or vehicles in general. Reduce the usage of petroleum fuels, then there will be increases in taxes. That is t every one, or users of electric vehicles. If electric vehicles were to become the dominant types, then taxes and or charges will have to increased to not only fill the gap due to the present tax take, but also to pay for the additional infrastructure,

I have seen and investigated the performance of the Nashville Electric Bus assessment currently taking place. Currently it is stationary recharging for 1/3 rd of the operational period. What is not obvious is can this be reduced?

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Piers Bowlan]

Seven pounds a month on recharging batteries doing 300miles/month, sounds very attractive. However after five years (?) what will be the bill for renewing the batteries? I suspect renewal will not be viable and the car will be scrapped (sorry recycled ). I tentatively looked at the cost of leasing an electric car and it did not seem to compare well with a petrol car.

I find the idea of an electric second car attractive, something basic and utilitarian rather like the concept of the original Mini back in the early sixties. The Tesla is light years away from that concept and of no interest to me. I don't believe ultimate top speed or fantastic range/acceleration is the priority for a second car. I also think that manufacturers by just electrifying existing models are missing a trick as they end up very heavy, over engineered, vehicles. What I would like to see is a two seater rather like a smart car with the priority given over to saving weight and cost. So, aluminium/carbon frame with polypropylene/honeycomb, body panels. A motor built into each week hub, perhaps with different windings (rear wheel motors high torque for acceleration/front motors wound for top speed). So no complicated transmission system. Seats made from ABS and foam. No paint just coloured moulded body panels. Twenty five percent of the private vehicles on the road are second cars and most of these their primary function is commuting to work over relatively short distances in urban or semi-urban areas with one person aboard.

Perhaps I am the only one who would buy one though!

[Rich too]

The politicians are dreaming with 100% EV. I work in Central London and you can't even get fibre broadband - my home in the sticks has better internet - BY FAR!! We've recently had to get a dedicated line (at great expense) so that staff can work remotely. And they think they can get EV working!!!

I read recently that Mazda do not take EV too seriously, and they see the future still with IC (apologies if it was already mentioned).

[Erfolg]

The idea of weight reduction is something that has in recent times been a major goal of the conventional car manufacturers. The idea goes way back. Some cars are made from steel which has been rolled to produce stressed skins, to improve the strength, so that the overall weight can be reduced. Others have gone the aluminum route. a sub division of that is aluminum extrusions that light weight parts are bonded on.. Many top end cars use carbon fiber. Yes, weight reduction has been embraced with gusto in recent times. In the past it has been tried, often with mixed results due to such things as electrolytic corrosion, in other cases issues of maintaining long term integrity of the structures, I am thinking very early TVR Granturas, or Rochdale Olympics.

At present I can imagine getting an electric vehicle through crash testing is an issue, particularly with a heavy battery.

The idea of hub motors is also as old as the hills, the Porsche Lohner. As with many apparently good ideas, not sufficiently attractive as the idea at first seems. Although times and technology do change.

Returning to the Nashville bus theme. I did notice that the buses were always full. So I looked up the route, and found that it went past our hotel, essentially just going around the city centre. It was also free. My wife suggested that we should take a ride on it. I said perhaps we should finish our beers and then walk the route, as it would be healthier. She then lost interest. I did notice that the other buses going out to the suburbs were empty coming and going. All of this made me think that places like central London, buses are economic in all sences. Whereas buses to the small villages, such as the one we lived in in Cumbria, just do not work, just two or so people on board. Which makes you ask why use enormous buses, when they are to big for the lanes. Which then made me think, they are pretty much Chauffer driven very large spacious vehicles devoid of luxury.

There is even a two carriage train running from Nashville to Clarksville, just twice a day as a experiment. Both of the schemes were castigated by one political party as Taxville, Tennessee. Wilst the other wanted to increase the subsidies. Who won the local election I have no idea.

I have thought for a long time that public transport is insufficient at peak times and running empty at other times, with reduced services. Where a large capital investment sits in a depot, drivers are doing what? Is this why public transport costs so much? Perhaps it is better that individuals decide to spend their money on a vehicle, that sits all day in the drive, waiting for the school run, than either the public transport passenger and tax payer complaining.

I personally have no issue with large or small companies making a living from generation of power, there is no reason to dislike big business or small.

Perhaps

[Frank Skilbeck]

Piers, do you mean something like the Renault Twizy?

[Alan Jarvis]

Erfolg. To answer your point on crash testing.

Tesla Model 3 crushes NHTSA's crash testing with a 5-star rating - CNet

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-model-3-nhtsa-crash-test-score/

20 Sep 2018 - The Model 3 received top scores in every category tested by NHTSA, including standard safety equipment.

[Alan Jarvis]

Nissan Leaf 5 star rating. https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/nissan/leaf/32742

Not so difficult even with a big battery.

[Rich too]

Posted by Erfolg on 01/11/2018 10:01:43:

I have thought for a long time that public transport is insufficient at peak times and running empty at other times, with reduced services. Where a large capital investment sits in a depot, drivers are doing what? Is this why public transport costs so much? Perhaps it is better that individuals decide to spend their money on a vehicle, that sits all day in the drive, waiting for the school run, than either the public transport passenger and tax payer complaining.

I personally have no issue with large or small companies making a living from generation of power, there is no reason to dislike big business or small.

Perhaps

Interesting observation. I have long commuted in and out of London (m/c), and often thought how inefficient public transport is. Buses are ridiculous things, clogging up the roads and often causing congestion. There must be a better design out there....

[Don Fry]

Rich, I would have thought that if the cost of collecting the money from passengers, and all the security and audit process associated with collecting money for public transport, were removed, buses would get cheap to run. And because they are now free to use, commuters might start using them, leaving cars out of the city. And they won't be stopped for as long, if the driver has no check to make that the prospective passenger has a right to ride.

And I would reckon that a hyrogen fuelled I.c engine bus is not an impossible technology, or infasture project

And we might make a start at no longer killing city dwellers with poisoned air.

[Alan Jarvis]

 

Easy solution - Oyster card as used in London. Or like in Rome swipe your card when you get on and swipe it when you get off.

No cash transactions.

90% of passengers round our way are pensioners who just swipe their bus pass.

Edited By Alan Jarvis on 01/11/2018 14:56:09

Edited By Alan Jarvis on 01/11/2018 15:01:24

[Don Fry]

I think part of Rich's gripe was the conjestion a bus causes while checking passengers. And the bureaucracy still costs. And money is still collected somewhere in the process. 

But I'm not too bothered. I don't breath city air. I don't commute any more. All I have to do now is work out a way of not paying taxes to pay for the damage pollution and conjestion causes, as it does not benefit me personally. Perhaps an electric car would do it.

 

Edited By Don Fry on 01/11/2018 15:19:10

[Erfolg]

I perhaps did not explain very well the issues i envisage with crash testing an electric vehicle. I am assuming that the all up weight is in reality pretty similar to conventional cars. What I see as a potential issue is that specific and different issues relating to maintaining the integrity of the battery or consequent issues relating to the failure of the integrity of the battery may not be that easy to manage.

I did note some years ago, that some aspects of crash testing IC vehicles were adjusted to not take any benefit from the mass of the engine and gearbox, by off setting the impact area. I would expect that the crash test as applied to electric vehicles would be arranged in a similar manner. Although it would not surprise me that as yet, only token changes have been made. It is only after a pattern of specific to electric vehicle crashes issues develops that I would expect specific electric car testing regimes to be fully developed.

[Anthony Wright 3]

What has any of this got to do with RCM&E ?

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Andrew767]

Posted by Piers Bowlan on 01/11/2018 08:27:19:

Seven pounds a month on recharging batteries doing 300miles/month, sounds very attractive. However after five years (?) what will be the bill for renewing the batteries? I suspect renewal will not be viable and the car will be scrapped (sorry recycled ). I tentatively looked at the cost of leasing an electric car and it did not seem to compare well with a petrol car.

I find the idea of an electric second car attractive, something basic and utilitarian rather like the concept of the original Mini back in the early sixties. The Tesla is light years away from that concept and of no interest to me. I don't believe ultimate top speed or fantastic range/acceleration is the priority for a second car. I also think that manufacturers by just electrifying existing models are missing a trick as they end up very heavy, over engineered, vehicles. What I would like to see is a two seater rather like a smart car with the priority given over to saving weight and cost. So, aluminium/carbon frame with polypropylene/honeycomb, body panels. A motor built into each week hub, perhaps with different windings (rear wheel motors high torque for acceleration/front motors wound for top speed). So no complicated transmission system. Seats made from ABS and foam. No paint just coloured moulded body panels. Twenty five percent of the private vehicles on the road are second cars and most of these their primary function is commuting to work over relatively short distances in urban or semi-urban areas with one person aboard.

Perhaps I am the only one who would buy one though!

Piers

Which car needs it's battery needs replacing after only five years....Please enlighten us??

I can't think of a single one. Although i can think of many diesels that will need their DPF replacing at about that time,that will cost more than replacing an EV's battery.

Andrew