Electric Cars.

[Former Member]

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[IDD15]

Posted by Percy Verance on 03/11/2018 17:18:37:

It isn't going to happen overnight IDD. How long do you suppose it took to build a network of petrol filling stations when internal combustion engines first appeared......

Interesting you cite the Ubercity lamp post chargers. I saw a couple of blokes fitting some over in Yorkshire last week. I assume to use them you'd need one of the existing network swipe cards? Or do they use their own?

Edited By Percy Verance on 03/11/2018 17:20:21

You're quite right of course it is going to take a while, with a lot of it funded by private money (ecotricity, Shell, LIDL, IKEA, BP, Polar etc.) and some from the government. Its the lack of planning and coordination that is so frustrating, especially here is England and Wales. Scotland totally different story, lots of public chargers and in the right places, park and ride car parks, shopping areas, football grounds, train station car parks......

When you get your new Leaf I thoroughly recommend a road trip to Scotland but forget SW Wales if you have an EV!

idd

[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

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[Cuban8]

Since I started this topic back in January with my worry that the total adoption of electric cars will be unaffordable for people on low to modest incomes, we've wandered off my orginal subject, but it's been a worthwhile and informative journey.

Just out of curiosity, I've just looked on Auto trader for used electric vehicles. The cheapest is a hideous Mitsubishi of 2012 vintage for a few quid under four grand and a couple of equally uninspiring eleven years old hybrids on the AA site for about three grand............hardly the few hundred quid IC runabouts that many will only be able to afford. Not sure that we've answered my original point.

Anyone fancy a thread on self driving cars? Another fanciful white elephant IMHO, despite what they said on BBC 'Click' this morning.

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 04/11/2018 11:14:21

[Frank Skilbeck]

Yes, but you are being a bit unfair, put in £1,000 near me and the newest car is 2008, £500 and it's 2004, once the technology is mainstream then prices might be more competitive.

[Former Member]

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[Don Fry]

Which is why, having read the last page of twaddle, anyone with half a brain cell would wait 5? years, at a minimum, to assess what bits come true, what products are lemons. We might even get the first inklings of how governments plan to change the tax base, to cover the loss of revenues from IC engine decline. Because they have to cover their loss. I vote for a hair tax, 50 quid per inch per month.

[Former Member]

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[Don Fry]

So says the marketing department

[IDD15]

+1 for the hair tax

idd (baldilocks)

PS

I can't wait for self driving cars, it would get my elderly mother off the road.

[Former Member]

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[Erfolg]

I recently sat in a BMW i3 in the local BMW showroom, apparently it was Rooneys car, before his ban and subsequent move to the USA.

As for the car, WOW, once you are in it. Getting in was another matter, as the sill was so wide. The other aspect that put me off was the price, it was so scary, I cannot remember what it was exactly, approx £100,000. They had two of them, one already sold. I could get an old one for £57,000. Or for £1000 per month. The killer was two things, there is no space for the Zimmer frame, nor my models. I am also guessing that repair costs are astronomical.

I did have a look in a i3, without a fancy paint job, theirs being black, it is hideous. Other than that not up to standard for the section of the market it occupies, price wise. OK for the mum for picking up the kids, although when i pick up the grandkids, the mothers all drive expensive SUVs. Perhaps the target market are old pensioners, rather than the young pensioner.

[Former Member]

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[Don Fry]

Posted by Percy Verance on 04/11/2018 12:17:42:

I make no apologies for mentioning it, but I can't help but notice the vast majority of your posts - both in this thread and others - seem very negative, or hint at it.........

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 04/11/2018 12:19:48

Very perceptive comment.

Edited By Don Fry on 04/11/2018 13:33:27

[Frank Skilbeck]

Posted by Erfolg on 04/11/2018 12:41:27:

I recently sat in a BMW i3 in the local BMW showroom, apparently it was Rooneys car, before his ban and subsequent move to the USA.

As for the car, WOW, once you are in it. Getting in was another matter, as the sill was so wide. The other aspect that put me off was the price, it was so scary, I cannot remember what it was exactly, approx £100,000. They had two of them, one already sold. I could get an old one for £57,000. Or for £1000 per month. The killer was two things, there is no space for the Zimmer frame, nor my models. I am also guessing that repair costs are astronomical.

I did have a look in a i3, without a fancy paint job, theirs being black, it is hideous. Other than that not up to standard for the section of the market it occupies, price wise. OK for the mum for picking up the kids, although when i pick up the grandkids, the mothers all drive expensive SUVs. Perhaps the target market are old pensioners, rather than the young pensioner.

The i8 carbon fibre hybrid supercar is £100,000 the i3 electric hatch is around £30,000 (but that one doesn't interest footballers)

[Erfolg]

Frank

It was an i8.

I did find the sales pitch hard to follow, which I received, even after being honest and saying I was not buying. From memory, you have the option as with my car of eco, comfort and sport. All of which sounds straight forward from the drivers perspective. From the perspective of system control, very different. With my car you do notice the difference, I guess more so with the i8.

From the perspective of fuel usage view point, I remember it would do up to 20 miles on all electric mode. Which I think only was available in eco, and this is where i started to become confused. In Eco and perhaps Comfort mode, it could use regenative braking to save fuel. although in comfort mode it could decide to coast.

Now when running with the petrol engine mode only, it only does 30 to the gallon. Yet it also is capable of +100 mpg. I now received a complicated explanation of how and when. I now assume that the engine is run at a constant high efficiency mode, switching the motor in and out, using the battery to keep it that way.

Everything else I either did not get or have forgotten.

I did get that the front is full of motors and control systems, where as the back has the engine and a tiny luggage space. Now I did manage to get into the rear seats, which are great, almost as good as my Porsche (when I had one). Now this is where my previous knowledge came into play, I asked the sales person to slide the front seat back into the driving position. Now the same issue that my kids used to complain about became evident, you cannot have feet, or move your knees. An extra 6 inches is all that is needed.

Again being candid, even if I thought the car was affordable by me, the shear complication of all the electronics, switch gear and the two driving sources, suggested to me that it would be a money pit. I did ask what the maintenance plan cost was for it, I was told that non was currently available, although if i was seriously interested he would get one worked up.

From what i could gather the batteries are somewhere in the centre, the consol is also quite wide. I think that came up when asking about battery changing.

Edited By Erfolg on 04/11/2018 15:34:19

[Rich too]

IMHO they are also ugly cars. And I agree, an absolute money pit. I read the Tesla is currently performing apallingly in the reliability stakes - not what you want in a very expensive, so called premium, car.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

O.Ps point has been pretty much ignored, this switch over to lecky ? has massive consequences, 2040 ? in your dreams.

[Don Fry]

John, I'm not so sure. I would accept that the current crop are not very impressive. But they do get better. And the cities will get stricter as to what they allow in. Mind, I wish they would be as picky on the cars owned by the residents of said cities. But they are dying of air pollution, and that has to be a concern to anyone with a moral compass. But leccy is just one technology, currently exiting journalists, and polititions.

And a second hand car is a second hand car. Would you fancy the top of the shop, Ghia version, at 15 years old, or the base model without all the gimmicks and wiring. And given time, the impecunious motorist will, as ever, find the sweet spot, between cash,, and actually getting to work. Bottom line is, in ancient times, will the motor run for two years, to today, will it pass two MOT's of emission tests. And scrap is still scrap, and rich folk still buy lots of cars for wiser heads to run into the ground.

Cuban will to my view, still have a car, same price, but the criteria for picking a bargain changes.

Re Tesla, would you trust a tyro to build an ExtraWot, and you pay him to do it, or pay the same money, and Chris Watt Does it. Your choice.

But one caveat, just once in a while something unexpected and new comes along. Ford Model T, the Cortina, Transit.

i just haven't seen a electric version yet.

[Erfolg]

Don, if you lived in the dirty old city of Manchester back in time, right up to the early 70s, you would know what pollution was. Today, for all the hype, the air quality is very much better.

Another aspect of today is the fact the we are living for longer than in earlier times. Many in industry only lasted a year or two after their 65 birthday, if lucky. Many died much younger.

Of course a great killer was cigarettes, if you smoked them directly or secondary, be it in the office, cinema, the pub.

Are people really dying in numbers from particularly car emissions. Seems not, as splitting out car transport equates to a very small fraction of the total pollution, Even less than half of the emissions from transport, which more often than not miss out aircraft and shipping.

IMO cars are an easy target, they even get blamed for the pollution along Oxford street in London.

Yet I do welcome improved air quality, as long as all the pollution from the sacred cows are also addressed. I read just yesterday that buses and other public transport pollution is ignored as it will cost billions to deal with it. Suggesting it could easily take a decade before this source is improved upon.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Are people dying from exhaust emissions ? of course not, how could anyone living near busy roads inhaling emissions possibly suffer, I heard it's good for you.

Public transports are sacred cows ? absolutely, do away with em, get on yer bikes and go to work, scroungers.

P.S keep out the way of my car though.

[Frank Skilbeck]

Posted by Erfolg on 04/11/2018 22:05:29:

Yet I do welcome improved air quality, as long as all the pollution from the sacred cows are also addressed. I read just yesterday that buses and other public transport pollution is ignored as it will cost billions to deal with it. Suggesting it could easily take a decade before this source is improved upon.

https://www.airqualitynews.com/2018/02/15/londons-electric-bus-fleet-expands/

[Erfolg]

John, I am sure that people are adversely affected by many pollutants, not only cars. Just taking transport, it is known that older buses and trucks are a significant source of pollutants, particularly in city centres. Trucks have been subjected to legislation with respect to new trucks, in this case business pays. In the case of buses I was very surprised to hear on television that there are no plans to deal with the issue of older buses, where there are large numbers, as this would cost billions.

Frank I am in favour of replacing old buses, as they do represent a significant proportion of pollution in city centres. I am also infavour of making the central areas of cities traffic free, that includes buses, as they are also pose a traffic hazard to pedestrians which can be avoided.

We should also remember that a major source of pollutants, is apparently, particles resulting from both tyre wear and brake related dusts, not just exhaust fumes.